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Papamutes
Papamutes is a podcast that dives into the minds of creative individuals—artists, writers, entrepreneurs, performers, and makers—who not only pursue their craft with heart but also find meaningful ways to give back. Each episode features an inspiring conversation about their journey, what drives their creativity, and how they’re using their talents to uplift others.
Papamutes
The Write Path: David Silverman: A Hollywood Story
Veteran screenwriter and author David Silverman 'How to be A Rockstar Screenwriter' takes us through his incredible journey in Hollywood, sharing on the Papamutes Podcast insider stories and practical advice for aspiring writers. His decades of experience across beloved shows like The Jeffersons, One Day at a Time, Mork and Mindy, Alf, and South Park offers valuable insights into the craft of screenwriting and the business of television. And don't miss the chance to download Silverman's book for free on Kindle from July 4th through July 8th, 2025.
show notes: susan morrison authored lorne: herb solow was head of mgm:
“THE OPINIONS EXPRESSED OR VIEWS EXPRESSED BY GUESTS DO NOT NECESSARILY REFLECT OR REPRESENT THOSE OF THE HOST;
Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeart Radio, Castro, Google Podcasts or wherever you stream your podcasts.
You're listening to Unmuted with Papa Mutes. Welcome to Papa Mutes everybody. Today, my guest is David Silverman. David is a writer and author of how to Be a Rockstar Screenwriter or at least Pay the Bills Mindset Tools and Strategies for a Successful Screenwriting Career. David has worked a variety of Hollywood jobs and I'm thrilled to have him on. David, welcome to Papa Mutes.
David Silverman:Hey, I'm really happy to be here, thank you.
Papamutes:Yeah, my pleasure. So let's get right to it.
David Silverman:I mean, what are some of the shows and films you have worked on that people would recognize that are listening or watching? Yeah, so a lot of TV, the Jeffersons One Day at a Time, alf, newhart, south Park, gilbert Duckman, a whole bunch of other stuff, and created five TV shows.
Papamutes:One of them was the Wild Thornberries.
David Silverman:It's a kids' show, yeah animated show. And some films. Right, yeah, I worked on, it was Steven Spielberg on the Flintstones movie. There were several movies based on our Wild, thoroughbred characters, so there are probably three of those all together, Sweet sweet.
Papamutes:So how did you crack the bubble of Hollywood? I mean, it's not an easy bubble to crack.
David Silverman:No, I think it's harder now than it was for me, but yeah, I would still. So, yeah, I taught a whole class at UCLA on breaking in and yeah. So the trick is you have to have a good writing sample. That's the first step. So it's either if you want to be a screenwriter, like a feature writer, then you have to write a movie script, and if you want to be a TV writer which I advise is a good idea, there's more jobs there you need a sample script from a TV show or a pilot.
David Silverman:They're preferring pilots now, but back when I broke in, my partner and I wrote a taxi spec and a Barney Miller spec, which then, when I say spec, that means we dreamed up our own episode idea for it and wrote it, and it was on speculation, so we weren't paid or anything for those, but those were the samples that got us jobs. And then, once we got the jobs, we got William Morris came. You know they called us right up. These guys are getting hired on staff at one date at a time. You know, we were like 20s in our 20s back then. Yeah, the agents will find you if you have a good enough deal.
Papamutes:But how did you? I mean, you submitted these scripts but you're unknown. I mean, how did you get you know there's a million people that want to submit scripts? How did you get people to see it?
David Silverman:Yeah, so there's a couple chapters on that in the book how to be a screenwriter.
David Silverman:And yeah, when you're just starting out and you know we didn't have an agent when we started out or a manager or anything, so there's a form you can get for free on the Internet. It's a release form. It releases anybody who reads your script from. You know you're not going to sue them, that's what it tells them, so you can read this and I won't sue you if something similar comes up. And so, yeah, we used those. Read this and I won't sue you if something similar comes up.
David Silverman:And so, yeah, we used those. We sent our taxi and our burning Miller specs to people in the business and and as people started liking them a lot and very lucky there, we were invited to pitch work in Mind Mindy, the TV show with Robin Williams, and then, once we got that job, we sold the story there it's kind of like there's a word of mouth when we got invited to the Jeffersons and so so far we have no agent or anything setting these things up. But when we did pitch the Jeffersons, I brought those two scripts with me the spec scripts that I talked about, and down the hall all the Norman Lear shows were in the same building.
David Silverman:The Day to Time was another show with Valerie Bertinelli, and so I took those two scripts, and, of course, the release forms, down to this story editor's office For one day at a time his name was Bud Weiser, which is a strange name Bud Weiser.
Papamutes:Gotta love that.
David Silverman:That was it, anyway. I left the two scripts on his desk and we got a call saying to come in. We sold them a script and we wrote it and then they said we like what you're doing and we want to hire you on staff.
Papamutes:So who calls the shot? As far as payment, you sold them the script. Are you saying this is what I want, or are they saying this is the rate that we give people who are unknown?
David Silverman:yeah, that was lucky. Uh, bud weiser and the two showrunners yeah, they're. Apparently they were looking for somebody at that time, so a lot of it was timing sure um, yeah, a couple of people had left the show and they needed to fill that space. Yeah, they decided that what we were writing was good enough. It was on the level of the show, even though we were newbies. So they hired us for a whole year and that's how we got our first real staff job in television.
Papamutes:So I mean, just briefly prior to, you went to Stanford right to study psychotherapy and you end up at USC to study film. I mean that's a good prerequisite for dealing with Hollywood.
David Silverman:Yeah that's true, yeah, so I started out. You know, as a kid my family went to therapy like every two weeks because my brother had OCD and so I was in there, we were all talking about, you know, psychology issues and I started get used to it and I liked it and I thought, and then my brother miraculously was cured. You know, he doesn't have that problem anymore. So I was very impressed, yeah.
David Silverman:So when I got to Stanford I thought I would major in psychology. So I did psychology there. They had the best you know, the teachers there were the number one psychology department. So anyway, I graduated there and then also, towards the end of my four years there, I took a course with Scott Turow who wrote Presumed Innocent creative writing, and I liked it a lot and I started writing some sort of funny short stories. Anyway, then the summer after Stanford I made a short film and my brother and sister were in it. It's like just kind of amateur hour. But I sent the script to USC and I got into their film department, which was again like the number one department in the country. A lot of luck involved there too.
Papamutes:Yeah Well, timing is everything right. Networking and timing. So you fast forward to today. We'll get through other stuff, but your book how to be a rock star screenwriter. What separates that from, in your opinion, from other you know plethora of screenwriting books. In fact, I have one right over there I'm sure you've heard save the cat.
David Silverman:You know that's like oh yeah, that's number one yeah, you loved reading that.
Papamutes:I think I have the second one. Save the Cat Strikes Back. Anyway, what's your book?
David Silverman:So those books are very good. I recommend them In my book. I recommend a few books besides mine and they focus on how to write the script and nothing more really. So my book's more about some of the psychology of it. It's very hard, usually like the typical writer breaks in on their seventh or eighth screenplay. So they're going through a period where they're writing six or seven scripts and nobody's that interested. So it's a tough thing for a writer to keep going after like getting zero feedback that helps or validation. So I talk about the zen of screenwriting, that part of it where you have to. You know you're not going to sell this script but you have to consider all the other advantages of writing it. It's going to be your sample script. It will get you an agent. Possibly it will get you into a producer who then can sell a script to them. So I try to work on the psychology. This is why you have to keep writing, because it's easy to give up. A lot of people do. After three or four scripts Nothing happens.
Papamutes:Do you feel it's absolutely necessary to move to hollywood or new york to be closer to the industry? I mean even today yeah.
David Silverman:So there's two different answers to that. If you're writing screenplays, you don't have to live here. If you want to write on television show, you do have to live here, because, because most TV shows are written, like, with a staff of writers and there's a thing they call the room. You know where they have, like, typically, a staff is, you know, 10 to 15 writers. All the creative stuff happens in the room, so they break stories in the room. They stuff happens in the room, so they break stories in the room, they rewrite scripts in the room, like on a comedy show. There's tons of rewrites, like we would have a rehearsal on Tuesday and I would stay up late Tuesday night to fix all the stuff that didn't work, and it's rarer than when you have a script that's just 100% and kicks ass.
David Silverman:So Tuesday nights we sometimes stay until 3, 4, or 5 in the morning trying to fix everything, and that's where the room comes in handy. You have all these voices and more people can pitch ideas and jokes. You can also send YouTube. Guys go off and rewrite that scene and come back, and you know there's like a lot of different ways to use the room. But if you're living in LA to answer your question, that's your best shot at getting a TV job.
Papamutes:I'm sure Right Now who I mean? You know everyone wants to make money. Just who I mean? If you think about being rich, you probably won't make it because you've got to focus on writing etc. But who makes the money? A showrunner, director, actor, producer, writer who's cashing in? If you had to really narrow that down, yeah, well, the showrunner in television.
David Silverman:anyway he's making the most money because he created the show and like in fact, we created five shows together, my partners and I.
Papamutes:But isn't that like a producer, or is that two different things.
David Silverman:Yeah, they call them executive producer, but they're also showrunners and head writers there's multiple names for it. But yeah, you make good money. We had a couple of successes and then Fox hired us in a development deal. They paid us a million dollars a year to create more shows. So that's big money. For writers, that's probably as good as it gets. I mean, a guy like Dick Wolf who creates Law and Order. He's probably getting $10 million to develop. He's established right, right, but yeah.
David Silverman:The other people who do make money, the actors tend to. You can read about $20 million salaries for like Leonardo DiCaprio or big stars.
Papamutes:Far and few between, but still, I mean you can cash in definitely. Do you think entering a screenplay contest is worth it?
David Silverman:Yeah, that's a good question. I think it could be. There's three the Nichols, the Austin and the Page. I mean there's the Austin and the.
Papamutes:Page. I mean there's big ones and then you know like Philadelphia has one, you know Pittsburgh has one. There's all kind of screenplay contests, but I mean the Nichols, I mean there's a ton of people trying out.
David Silverman:Yeah, no, it's true it's hard to win that one, but if you do, you're probably going to get your movie made. Those three have the most clout with producers and people who buy and make movies.
Papamutes:But do you feel I mean you consult on scripts and stuff. Would it be better if someone came to you with all your experience? Or trying to throw a dart at the board at a screenwriting contest? I mean it seems like a long shot.
David Silverman:There's a chapter in my book where I talk about how you get better as a writer. That's why you know the screenwriters don't sell their first script. They get better because after writing six of them you start to learn the craft a little bit better. But the other thing that will really help you learn is to have a professional read your script. I do that. Eric Bork does that. He's really good at it. He wrote Band of Brothers for HBO. The TV show Won an Emmy for it. He's really excellent.
Papamutes:Now, have you ever not to be a dick? But have you ever read a script that someone sent you? You don't know this person and it's like ugh, sorry, this is not your way off. It's your way off. It's not even close. I mean, you've got to tell these people straight up, right? I know?
David Silverman:That's hard. But you know I'm pretty good when I do consult like that. I'm pretty good at coming up with ways to fix it and make it better, so I help out that way. But it's true, a lot of people you know they should read Save the Cat. You know that's great, yeah. Or Sid Field has a good book too, I think it's just called Screenplay. But yeah, you've got to learn all the fundamentals early on.
Papamutes:I'm sure it can't hurt, but not a screenwriting. Creative writing class is beneficial. I would think it would be.
David Silverman:Yeah, when I was at USC I took a whole bunch of writing classes and uh, the thing about usc like as a chapter in my book about should you go to film school or should you take that money and make a movie you know there's different approaches. I know, um, uh, yeah, there's a lot of examples of writers who, instead of going to film school, they made a film. Guys like, uh well, spike lee made, uh, his first movie, do the right thing. And lena dunham made some movie called furniture. Uh, she didn't go to film school, but she's very successful. She had the tv show girls and a couple other projects.
Papamutes:So it's not absolutely necessary. It can't hurt, but it's not like it's. You know you better do it or you're never going to make it Right?
David Silverman:Yeah, you could like. In my book I suggest a couple of things you could do instead. So I taught at UCLA Extension and they have affordable screenwriting courses on their in their extension. So you don't have to get in. You don't have to have a GPA and high SAT scores or anything to get into that program. I recommend it Because the good thing about UCLA and USC is you're learning from professionals.
Papamutes:Sure.
David Silverman:They hire guys who have a track record and have written lots of scripts and sold them.
Papamutes:Plus, you make friends and networking is huge.
David Silverman:Yeah, that's where I met my writing partner. We wrote that Taxi Spec and the Burning Lips Spec together. We were pretty lucky because we got interest. It took us maybe a year to get those together and we got interest. Like, it took us maybe a year to get those together and we got hired right away so I can um go ahead sorry no, I mean, sometimes it does happen.
David Silverman:You can like we didn't sell those scripts to taxi or barney miller but you got us into Maxi or Barney Miller but they got us into all these shows. They liked the writing on them.
Papamutes:Nice. Have you ever seen the Poor and Hungry the?
David Silverman:Poor and Hungry.
Papamutes:Yeah, it's the first film. Have you heard of Hustle and Flow? You've heard of that movie right.
David Silverman:Yeah.
Papamutes:Hustle and Flow. Well, the director I think Dwyer, I might be mispronouncing it he made this poor and hungry film with a video camera. I mean a regular home video camera.
David Silverman:Yeah.
Papamutes:But it's really good. It's black and white, it's really good. But someone saw it and that led to him getting the hustle and flow and anyway, anybody listening. I recommend the poor and hungry. It's, it's on youtube, it's, it's really I'll check it out yeah, it's very uh guerrilla filmmaking, but good, you know, the guy knew what he was doing. He just only had a home movie camera or home video, right? Yeah, it's very good uh, highly recommend it um yeah, a lot of people.
David Silverman:When you do that, instead of going to film school, they make a movie. I know I think it was Lena Dunham's parents say here, you can have this money, you can either make a movie or go to film school. And they gave her enough money to make that short film. It was actually a feature. I think it's called Furniture.
Papamutes:I mean nowadays, you know, with the phones, you know you can make a movie on your phone, yeah, you, and literally put it on Final Cut Pro and at least get something you know the interest of people. Yeah, back in the day, I mean your home movie cameras were.
David Silverman:Sure, yeah, there's a film called Tangerine that was made all on an iPhone, and you can find that on YouTube as well.
Papamutes:Yeah, a lot of really good movies get done Pretty wild.
David Silverman:Yeah, that's your entry point too, Once you finish something like that.
Papamutes:it's a sample of your work and people are impressed, like you said, with Hustle Flow. Yeah, love that movie. But you could not be living in LA, right, make your film and somehow show someone online and back in the day, I mean you'd have to get that film to the hands of people to watch it.
David Silverman:It's a whole different animal now but still not an easy yeah. Yeah, I have friends who, like I have one friend who lives in nashville and he writes, uh, movies. Um, he usually writes low budget sort of actions, but they're sort of comedic also, and Bob Sands is his name. He's written a whole bunch of movies and he still lives in Nashville. He didn't have to come out here. You might have to fly out here for the meeting, you know, but there's Zoom now so you might not need to actually be there. You go exactly. You did the animation too, right oh yeah.
Papamutes:yeah, there's Zoom now, so you might not need to actually be there. There you go. Exactly, you did feature films. You did the animation too, right?
David Silverman:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, my partner and I wrote for a whole bunch of animated shows. Winnie the Pooh was an Emmy-winning TV show that Disney made and, yeah, my partner won an Emmy for that Nice. And then, yeah, based on that, we were asked to produce a couple animated uh TV shows and we also sold, uh, the Wild Thornberries, which is animated uh, now, what's your feeling on, like when I'm growing up, you know?
Papamutes:I mean I don't know how old you are, but you're, you know, you're close to me. I'm guessing I could be wrong. But my point is back in the day, you know, bugs, bunny, the Roadrunner, tom and Jerry, all these, they're pretty violent. Now I'm watching these cartoons with my grandchildren and it's pretty sedated. Do you think, like when I was watching these cartoons back in the day I wasn't going out and bashing my friends in the head? You know, from watching cartoons it seems really, I don't know, boring to me. These cartoons.
David Silverman:Yeah, I know what you mean. Things are changing. There's a lot of pc culture stuff kicking in and yeah, it's kind of dilutes the uh, the fun of some of these. There's still some good cartoons. I mean south park is really good, yeah, that's still good. But yeah, kids cartoons get affected that way a lot. Yeah, well, embrace was a really fun experience. They, let us do kind of adult humor if you really most of the cartoons even for kids cartoons they have have adult level jokes. We all try to get things in there.
Papamutes:Sure, what do you find harder to write Comedy, drama or movies?
David Silverman:Movies to me are harder. I spent 30 years in television. I kind of know how to break down a TV show and how to do it right. Movies are a little trickier. The act work structures are different and they're longer. You really need to. But for people who are writing movies, I would suggest low budget. Right now there's a tendency of the big movie studios they just want to hire the A-list guys that they know and so they keep using those guys over and over, so guys with a track record. So it's hard for a newbie to break in. But low budget and specifically low budget horror, that's an easy show to sell. Uh, tv, I mean a movie to sell compared to everything else, because you don't need a big star for a horror movies like you can have, like the blair witch project there's nobody. Nobody knew those people's names and it was a huge hit and they're.
David Silverman:They're also inexpensive compared to you know, one actor can raise the budget by 20 grand.
Papamutes:Sure sure. In fact, that movie I was mentioning the Poor and Hungry, he spent $20,000.
David Silverman:Wow, that's great.
Papamutes:This is back in the 90s, but it obviously led to more for him. Yeah, it's good stuff.
David Silverman:Yeah sure, robert Rodriguez like wrote his film. He said El Mariachi stuff. Yeah sure, robert Rodriguez wrote his film. He said El Mariachi for $7,000.
Papamutes:He had a lot of friends working for free. Oh, that's what you got to do, right it's hard to do that now Harder.
David Silverman:He probably did that in the 80s.
Papamutes:So when you're on a TV show, you're writing, you're acting, whatever. 80s. You're on a TV show, you're writing, you're acting Whatever. The magic number correct me if I'm wrong is 100 episodes to get to syndication. That's more money. How does that work? In general, as far as payment, I'm not talking numbers, I'm saying let me ask you this. When you're you know when you're on let me ask you this when you're on a TV show and you're writing, whether you're head writer or not, how do you get paid? Is it a weekly thing, every other week, every month, every episode? Or does it depend on the person?
David Silverman:Right. So, yeah, I really recommend television for people who want to, because it's the easiest way to make the most money. So when you're on staff, you're going to write, you're going to get a weekly salary, right. So you're going to get usually in the $100,000 range for a year For a rookie.
David Silverman:Well, not always for a rookie, but yeah, most of the jobs I had we were making that much money. I'm not sure why, but early on that's pretty good money. And then you get paid for the episode you write. It's a whole different thing and the Writers Guild has a payment breakdown for that. And then every time it reruns that's why that magic number of 100 is a huge goal for syndicated TV shows you get so, let's say you get 30,000 the first time you write for the script. That's sort of a typical sitcom breakdown and the next time it reruns you get half of that. You get $15,000 and it keeps going like that. Mathematically. Next time it's like 7.5 thousand, keeps going in half until you know.
Papamutes:I get checks now for like two cents even the show runner I mean all those people are still.
David Silverman:They get chopped down too well, yeah, after you'd three run like ten times. You know it gets kind of low, but the first time, the first rerun, is half of what you got for writing the script. That's usually in the neighborhood of $15,000, which is nice. You didn't do anything, you just got to rerun and then the next one will be $7,000. I know it adds up if you're writing like 30 episodes like my partner and I did. That money adds up. Sure, I got a writer's skill pension also.
Papamutes:There you go. I was going to say, I mean, I don't need numbers, but you're benefiting from syndication yourself, oh yeah.
David Silverman:Yeah, the one that did the best, ironically, was the Wild Thornberrys, which is animated, and there were eight seasons of that and three or four movies based on the characters. So I keep getting checks for those Every once in a while. I'll get a check for $3,000 or something. That's nice and the pension is great, the Writer's Guild pension. I think I'm getting like $35,000 a year.
Papamutes:Nice. Now who keeps? I mean, who keeps track of that, so you know you're not getting screwed? I mean you know you're not sitting around watching every show that's syndicated. Right, right I mean I'm sure there's a trust level somewhere.
David Silverman:Yeah, so that's another interesting point. I'm glad you brought that up. There's non-Writers Guild shows and there's Writers Guild shows, so the WGA protects the writers, makes sure they have these things called minimums so they keep you from getting screwed over and they keep track of all your sales. Good, screwed over and they keep track of all your sales. That's why I'm getting $35,000 a year from them now, because they know everything. You have to pay your dues to the Writers Guild. It's not very much. Every time you get paid they take a little something out of it. I think they keep track Did the writer's strike affect you.
David Silverman:Oh yeah, the writer's strikes. There were several, I mean the ones back in the 90s. That's a period when there was no work for maybe nine months. That was really rough. That's when my partner and I decided to write cartoons, because that's a totally different guild, so animation guild, the writers guild, wga is for, yeah, live action usually, so animation. They don't pay quite as much for half an episode, but so we started writing those and that's. It ended up with us being contracted to create those animated shows.
Papamutes:Is it harder to write? I think I asked this question. But comedy or drama, is that harder? I mean comedy, I think would be harder, but I don't know.
David Silverman:Yeah, comedy is harder. That's why they have a big room full of writers to come up with better jokes. You know there's a lot of jokes that don't work when you do the run-throughs on Tuesday and the actors put it on its feet and then you see what's not working.
David Silverman:So you have to go into the writer's room with all the other guys and try to figure out how to fix everything. It's tough. It's hard the drama. You know you don't usually have to worry about the dialogue that much because you know there's not a lot of jokes and dramatic writing, but sometimes the story needs rewrites. I'm sure they have their own room full of writers and they fix problems in the room.
Papamutes:Is it true for a comedy sitcom to you have to have a laugh every I don't know 30 seconds or something. I mean, it sounds ridiculous, but is that true?
David Silverman:Yeah, a lot of the shows I wrote for had laugh tracks I hate that fucking laugh track.
Papamutes:I know right, it's awful, I mean.
David Silverman:I guess they've done tests and people like the show better if there's some sprinkling of laughs, I mean if you watch some comedies, you know I watch the show better if there's some sprinkling of laughs.
Papamutes:If you watch some comedies, I watch the show and I'm like that's not funny, but they're just throwing a laugh in.
David Silverman:I know and I'm like that's not funny. They call it sweetening, that's the term they use. It's funny, but yeah, there's a guy with a box and they have all kinds of different laughs, laughs, and then they choose what they think would work the best. Yeah, I didn't usually take part in that, but yeah, there's people who do it. Like I say, the studies have shown people enjoy them. The show's better. I know it pisses you off and I don't particularly like it either.
Papamutes:Yeah, I mean, sometimes I like and it's funny and there's a laugh track, and some I'm like, oh my God, the laugh track is killing me.
David Silverman:I know what you mean.
Papamutes:When you were writing on these shows? Yes, and the show's being taped. Were you there?
David Silverman:Yeah, usually yeah.
Papamutes:That had to be cool.
David Silverman:I mean that's a cool show. Were you there? Yeah, usually, yeah, that had to be cool. I mean, yeah, yeah, live audience and it was fun to watch. You know, sometimes with in front of the audience, jokes don't work. Usually this is when the staff is. They want the staff there on filming nights. It's a fixed problem. So there's a lot of cases where we come up with another joke to fix things. You can't get them all, unfortunately but yeah, you know what?
David Silverman:that's right, it's not live like saturday night live no, it doesn't go right out, so you can edit it later I read actually just read a good book called lorn, about uh, I think susan miller's her name, but Lord Michaels.
Papamutes:I mean really detailed. I mean that guy put up a lot of shit but he got to where he wanted to get. Yeah, so in your book, I mean the second part of your book is at least pay the bills. Oh yeah, at what point? What level? You know, everybody wants to be famous screenwriter, but at what level do you need to be to at least pay the bills?
David Silverman:right, right. So tv works for that. Like you, you get a lot of money in television. Like you say, all my jobs were at least a hundred thousand dollars, so that was. I recommend that to people and the other benefits of tv. You get to write something and then see it on its feet filmed maybe two weeks later. But movies it takes years sometimes to get the funding and get the right stars in there and so it takes forever and sometimes the paydays are better, but not that much better. I remember getting paid $50,000 for a movie that I sold on a pitch with my wife. That's not a lot of money compared to TV money.
Papamutes:When you were on these TV, were you the head writer? I'm sure there's different levels of cash flow. Head writer Joe Schmo For the 100G. Were you the head writer?
David Silverman:Which show.
Papamutes:When you were making $100,000 a year.
David Silverman:Oh yeah, Was that your?
Papamutes:head writing position.
David Silverman:Yeah, that was just a regular writer. I think my partner and I had to split that. But yeah, if you're a writer you can expect those kinds of salaries. Yeah, we were story editors on One Day at a Time. That was our very first staff show, yeah. And then you work your way up. They start changing the titles there's like associate producer, producer, supervising producer, executive producer, and those titles carry more weekly money with them. The higher, you get Nice. Yeah, it adds up. There's a lot of money in television.
Papamutes:Now I mean also I mean that's good cash flow, but LA is not cheap either to live from what I've heard, that's a good point.
David Silverman:It's true, yeah. I mean you've got to pay, uncle.
Papamutes:Sam.
David Silverman:Right, yeah, taxes you. From what I've heard, that's a good point it's true.
Papamutes:Yeah, I mean you got to pay, uncle sam. You know you got right.
David Silverman:Yeah, texas, you got it you got other things going on like life. Yeah, sure, but it's still a good check. I mean, you know, yeah, that's true. True, yeah, it's uh. Yeah, I don't know how some people do it, I know people do now.
Papamutes:I mean when, when you were starting out and you got this writing job, did you continue? Because when a show stops this is a second actor, for instance, he's acting in a show it stops it's like ugh, there's no guarantee he's going to move on to the next show, so he's got to make the dough before they go. You know what I mean. Did you ever have that gap where you're like oh, fuck man, what am I going to do now?
David Silverman:Yeah, like, oh, fuck man, what am I gonna do now? Yeah, it happened all the time in our career. Uh, because the shows like the shows we created, for example, um, there's one called the super service guy which judge, judge reinhold and ellen claghorn. With ellen claghorn and those two, they went one season, 18 and out, and they didn't get picked up. So after that we had to go find and we were creators on that show and showrunners.
Papamutes:So I mean, if you're pocketing the cash, you know, and you have a little bank full, fine. But if you're just starting out and you're on a show, it's like, yeah, ba-da-ba-doo, let's go, let's go party, let's you know, uh, cocaine hookers the whole nine yards, right, or whatever, whatever you're into. And then the show stops. It's like, oh shit, gotta make that car payment I know yeah, I mean, that's part of the gig.
Papamutes:I'm not you know. I'm sure something's in your book to, at least you know, uh, bring the reality to it. It's not easy to get into and and there's pitfalls I know.
David Silverman:That's why I recommend this sort of a long view, because it's easy to get uh upset when like that happens, for example, and then quit, and it happens to writers a lot and they, they don't, maybe they don't uh the show they're on ends and they don't get uh, they don't get picked up on a different show for a year, two years and three years and then they start to, you know, go back to their old jobs, you know what is a good job to have while you're trying to live in la and still, still.
Papamutes:You know you're not working constantly, but you know you're trying to get established. What's a good day job that you know?
David Silverman:yeah, the day jobs I recommend are, uh, you know, for somebody who's moved out here and he's looking to get hired on a tv show, for example, there's a couple of jobs that like, for example, on the shows that we uh created, we hired writer's assistants, which they're the guy in the room who's you know, they're not writers, but usually they want to be writers and they have spec scripts and they're working closely with us.
David Silverman:The showrunners and writers are pitching ideas and they write everything down and they're the ones that take notes basically on everything that happens in the room and that's a tough job but I highly recommend it because on the two shows we created we gave those guys episodes. So you know, one of these guys went on to write for De. So you know, one of these guys went on to write for Dexter, you know, but his first paying job, screenwriting job, came as a perk for being a writer's assistant. So that gets you started, that gets you an agent.
Papamutes:So as an assistant you're getting paid. This is not like an internship type thing.
David Silverman:Oh yeah, that's a paid job. I recommend it for somebody who wants to break into television. That's a great job. Writer's assistant. The other guy that was in our room working, eric Shaw, went on to write for Spongebob and he won an Emmy for another show. So we give these guys their first paid screenwriting gig, which is the key to breaking in. Once you get paid to write something in Hollywood, people are interested. Agent Swann, like they may. You know the agents have to decide between, like, taking on a newbie writer who's never sold anything and uh, you know that takes a lot of their time. They're working with that, that guy and trying to improve his writing and come up with ideas what shows should you target, and that sort of thing.
Papamutes:But I mean that's a great gig if you can get it right. I mean let's just say you can't get that. Oh yeah, I mean are we talking being a waiter and all that bullshit? I mean you know? I mean that's the perfect gig. You're in the pizza shop. They make the pizza. You might as well roll the dough for the guy. I mean you know what I mean? Uh, outside of that job, is there anything?
David Silverman:yeah, there's a couple other jobs. When I, when I was like after usc like one of the classes they teach you how to write, they call it coverage for script. That's when you read a screenplay and kind of grade it for you know the dialogue and the story and all the other things that go into character arcs and things. So I learned how to do that at USC and then I applied to different studios. I got hired at American International Pictures and every day I went in to pick up a new script and I was a bartender at the same time. So I'd pick up a script or a novel Sometimes they gave me novels to read and then I would write coverage for it, which involves writing a summary that's really short but you want it to capture all the as much as possible the flavor of the work, which is not easy.
David Silverman:I would usually go home 10 bar I'd be reading the scripts behind the bar while I was waiting for customers to order, and then I'd go home at like two in the morning and write the coverage. And then I go home at like two in the morning and write these, the cover, and then you've got to grade the, like I said, the dialogue and the story and characters on a scale of 10. So every day I had to do that, and then every day the next morning I drove down to American International Pictures and dropped it off and got another script to read. So I was pretty busy at that point.
Papamutes:Sure yeah, you gotta. You gotta hump, you gotta hustle, you gotta write. Dropped it off and got another script to read, so I was pretty busy at that point?
David Silverman:Sure, yeah, you gotta. You gotta hump, you gotta hustle, you gotta write, write, write, write. But that's a really good job for somebody. You really learn a lot about how to write when you're evaluating other people's screenplays.
Papamutes:So let's just say someone's listening and they're like, oh yeah, where do where would you go to try to get that job? Or is it a matter of knowing somebody? Where would you actually physically go? I'm in la, you know where do I go to see if that is available yeah.
David Silverman:So, uh, you do what I did, uh, you learn how to write the coverage and you write a sample. So I was kind of I think I was trying to be clever and I got William Goldman came out with a book called Magic and I thought, well, everything he writes turns into a brilliant movie, like Butch Cassidy and all these things. So I recommended it highly in my coverage and I praised all the writing and everything because it was William Goldman, this guy that wrote all these great scripts. Anyway, they did make a movie out of that later. So that was the sample I sent around to all the studios and they read it and said, oh, this guy likes you know, he knows the format, it's easy to read his writing all that stuff. So that's how I got that job nice, and you send it. You can can get the addresses and emails for all the studios. There's a studio department in every studio. So that's how you do it.
Papamutes:And then there's the dreaded rejection. I mean, you're not going to just send it and like oh yeah, we'll take it. There's the dreaded rejection, and you're going to pound the payment again and again.
David Silverman:There's a lot of that. Yeah for sure. It's very true. That's another thing I talk about in the psychology of how to handle all those rejections. So one thing that does help, I think, is just knowing that it happens to the best writers too. You know guys like Stephen King. They collected rejection scripts, like hundreds of them, and yeah and yeah, somehow all it takes is one person that's one of the things I say in the book is all it takes is one?
Papamutes:yes, that's right. You got to crack that bubble. I mean you got to take a chance and see what happens anything in life, but especially with that. I mean jesus yeah.
David Silverman:No, it's hard on people emotionally to want to stick with it and do their best work, because they know. Let's say, you've written six scripts and they all got rejected and you know you're thinking all right, I'm gonna write another script, number seven.
Papamutes:They're probably thinking it's not gonna sell, uh, so you know, when you were writing as a young man, right, right, did you love writing? I think you've got to love it right. You can't just say I want to be a writer, just to you know, tell your girlfriend, I mean, you've got to love it right.
David Silverman:Yeah, that's true. It does help because the guys who get hired you know I had some friends, amazing friends. Yeah, they loved writing so much.
Papamutes:I don't love it as much as a lot of other people. They've got to have a passion for it.
David Silverman:Yeah, you do, you have to really love it. When I was in college as a kid I loved the Marx Brothers. I loved all these comedy movies that came out. I could quote the dialogue and that sort of thing. I even wrote my honors thesis on a comedy writer and that's damn nice and yeah. So I just I knew so yeah, I kind of, uh, I worshipped the. You know the guys who wrote those scripts.
Papamutes:So some of those comedies yeah, those comedies back in the day, or as you know, I mean you're probably watching the same ones I was, and then now they're. Even those are sedated a little bit, now a lot, actually. The comedies are not as yeah, what's the word you know?
David Silverman:edgy, edgy, right, yeah, you know you got to worry about this person and that person.
Papamutes:I mean, you know, just uh, the mike myers films are just like over the top hilarious, but yeah, someone's going to get offended. It's like come on.
David Silverman:I know right, yeah, Blazing Saddles is the classic.
Papamutes:Blazing Saddles.
David Silverman:Yeah, you probably could not get that movie made right now, which is a shame.
Papamutes:But you know, I mean, you probably noticed it. I think Richard Pryor actually was behind that, he wasn't just in it.
David Silverman:Yeah, true, he helped he was, he wasn't just in it. Yeah, true, he helped, he was in the writer's room. Yeah, in the writer's room. Sorry, yeah, yeah, brooks wrote movies like tv shows.
Papamutes:He had three or four guys on that, I can't remember the other guys.
David Silverman:But yeah, prior was in it and uh, yeah, I don't think they had in my mind, for I think he's a black sheriff and that is remembering that correctly, that's a classic movie. Yeah, so funny. But yeah, he was in the writers' room. I think they tried to cast other guys. But yeah, eventually he ended up in that role and yeah he was great in that.
Papamutes:Did you ever meet a gentleman named Herb Solo?
David Silverman:Herb Solo, I don't think so.
Papamutes:Head of Paramount Pictures at one time.
David Silverman:Oh, okay.
Papamutes:I'm going to bring that up because I had another gentleman on here, a director guy, who he came out of college and bugged him long story short until the guy actually said, okay, come and you'll be a PA. He was persistent with his constant trying to get into the bubble when I gave him a break.
David Silverman:For all the studios Disney, paramount, mgm, sony, the Norman Lear shows and all the Mary Tyler Moore.
Papamutes:This would be back in the early 70s, judging from the Mark Travis who came on and was talking about his beginnings, so to speak. I have a little segment I created. I want to see if you can go along with this called Name Association. I'm going to give you a name.
David Silverman:Okay.
Papamutes:Now, I'm assuming I'm not assuming you know all these people, but if you have a quote or a feeling or a story, great, it might just be one word, one sentence. But, um, let's give it a shot. It's the first time I'm doing this.
David Silverman:Here we go name association right let's see uh, robin williams ah, brilliant, yeah, genius love that. Yeah, I've seen him. Uh, I think I saw him at. Uh, I think I saw him at like, there was a payphone in Studio City and we were having hot dogs at the Papoose Hot Dog Show and, yeah, he put on a show, talking to this non-existent person on the other end of the line, like for 40 minutes. It was hilarious.
Papamutes:So you're saying he was just outside?
David Silverman:Yeah, that was not even on the show. He was just like like doing funny stuff.
Papamutes:Was he Robin Williams? The famous Robin Williams at that time?
David Silverman:Well he was Mork and Mindy famous.
Papamutes:That's famous. I mean that was pretty big, it was the number one show at the time. So you recognized him? Oh yeah yeah, yeah.
David Silverman:so yeah, that guy, yeah, yeah, probably nobody like richard prior, maybe it's close now you've worked on morgan mindy, or no? Sold the story to them. Yeah, so we went in a pitch.
Papamutes:So like one episode. Yeah, for one episode.
David Silverman:Yeah, I remember it's about white lies okay, cool, great.
Papamutes:Did you ever meet robin williams though?
David Silverman:yeah, yeah, not, not in the, not at the studio, but outside the studio in the phone booth yeah, watching him put on the show for everybody amazing, like unbelievable. No scripts, you know nothing, just oh, he was, he was improv yeah, king of the yeah, all right.
Papamutes:How about um john good?
David Silverman:John Goodman. Yeah, I worked with him also on the Flintstones.
Papamutes:Seems like a good guy.
David Silverman:Yeah, he was great. Yeah. Yeah, flintstones was a fun show to work on at that time, so we were some of the writers on the script, kind of like Mel Brooks. They had a room full of writers for Flintstones and so the director asked us to show up on the set. So we got to meet and we got Elizabeth Taylor who played Fred's mother-in-law. On that we got to meet all these actors and Rick Moranis played Barney. So, rick, we were assigned to him. My partner and I said he has a few questions and problems about writers to improve on. So we went around figuring out what and we wrote up alternatives.
Papamutes:What about Steven Spielberg?
David Silverman:Oh yeah, Spielberg was fun. We pitched the story for the Flintstones directly to him and he was really nice. I got him to autograph a copy of Back to the Future. He wrote Back to the Past with the Flintstones on there, Cool.
Papamutes:And yeah.
David Silverman:So yeah, very nice guy. He's not over the top or anything, just sort of. You know, real sweet how about bob newhart yeah, newhart was also a regular guy, but hilarious yeah old school right right. Yeah, my partner and I had some input on the final episode of newhart where he wakes up next to emily. I don't know if you remember that. It's kind of a famous episode.
David Silverman:They were looking for a B story for that. My partner and I had this idea of what if somebody wants to come in and turn that town that Newhart lives in, turn it into what's that?
Papamutes:Bedrock.
David Silverman:Yeah, not, not Bedrock, but something similar like Solvang. Yeah, so our pitch was they want to buy the town and turn it into Solvang, so they used that. They changed it a little bit, but they used that part. So we, you know, marginally involved in that. But, yeah, another comic book, how about Richard Dreyfuss?
Papamutes:Richard Dreyfuss marginally involved in that, but yeah, another comics man, yeah, how about Richard Dreyfuss?
David Silverman:Richard Dreyfuss yeah, I don't think we ever met him, okay, but yeah, I mean I admire his work. He's a terrific actor, Good guy.
Papamutes:Pee Wee Herman.
David Silverman:Oh yeah, Pee Wee we worked with. That was really fun. He had a pilot idea that he wanted to write and after we had some, you know, we created five shows. So we had kind of a reputation for being guys that could make that work. And they set us up at the Hollywood Roosevelt Hotel and we got the top floor the Mayor Bradley Suite, I think it was called and we ordered room service and we were there all day writing with him and he was hilarious. Another hilarious guy.
Papamutes:Supposedly, from what I've read, he had a ton of different characters, but Pee Wee Herman was the one that a studio or somebody wanted to go with, so he got stuck with that, so to speak yeah, I know it's.
David Silverman:There's a really good documentary on maybe that's what I actually that's.
Papamutes:You know what? That's probably where I got that information from. Yeah, yeah yeah, he was a trip. How about Norman Lear?
David Silverman:yeah, you know, uh, we worked on at least two, maybe three of his shows. We never saw him, which was interesting, wow. But you know, he had something like six or seven shows going at the same time and that guy so yeah, he didn't actually come in and break stories with us.
Papamutes:How about Roseanne?
David Silverman:Oh, roseanne, that's uh, that's another interesting story. I, my partner and I, worked on the Tom Arnold show and she was the exec producer on that and she also acted in it. She played a stalker, I think. Uh, somebody was coming after Tom's character. That's kind of a funny idea. But yeah, she's kind of a funny idea. But yeah, she's kind of quirky. My partner and I was a star-sick in silver, most people call this. My partner had really long black hair and she called us the hippie and the Jew. I don't think she knew our names.
Papamutes:How about Drew Carey?
David Silverman:Yeah, Drew Carey was a lot of fun to work with. We worked with him on a show called the Good Life. This was before the Drew.
David Silverman:Carey show and before the Price is Right. Yeah, interesting guy, he was a Marine before he went into acting. I know we went to his apartment once just to hang out. I think Norm MacDonald came to that. A lot of black people went into acting. I know we went to his apartment once just to hang out. I think norm mcdonald came to that uh, a lot of people, and they were smoking pot again. This is before he was like a big, big shot all right, um no relation.
David Silverman:I'm assuming sarah silverman yeah, sarah Silverman Not related to me directly, but she played a stalker on another show. It's called Manhattan AC, which is a very funny show. It has a former actor who decides he wants to be a sheriff in real life, so he kind of buys this town and it was Chad Everett that played him. Chad Everett, wow, yeah, and there was an episode where Sarah Silverman played the stalker. Now, did you?
Papamutes:ever meet? Sorry to interrupt, I don't need a name, but I'm sure everybody's not nice. Did you ever meet? Sorry to interrupt. No, go ahead. I don't need a name, but I'm sure everybody's not nice. Did you ever meet someone who was famous and you were like fuck this guy or this girl, what an asshole.
David Silverman:Yeah, some actors are. You know, there was one guy like when he worked in ALF, the guy who played the father on that show Willie Tanner is his name on the show and he was kind of bipolar One day he'd be okay and then some days he'd be very difficult to work with. So one day in particular he was supposed to say something to Alf. That was kind of derogatory and I don't remember the joke or the line. But he said I would not say that to Alf. He knows the relationship better than anybody because he's the actor. He said I would not.
David Silverman:I refuse to say that line. I forget what it was, but he locked himself in his dressing room the whole day and he had the camera guys who were there getting paid uh, it's not cheap, you know, thousands and thousands of dollars. I mean he couldn't show the shoot, the episode. He locked himself in there and the next day I guess this is where the manic and the you know, the mood swings come in he brought, brought a box of Dom Perignon and gave one to everybody and apologized no, that's good, that's nice.
David Silverman:But he must have cost, the budget must have gone way up for that one.
Papamutes:Yeah, I'm sure, I'm sure. So look, before I wrap this up, you mentioned Elf. Who was controlling Elf? Who played Elf? How'd that work?
David Silverman:Oh, yeah, yeah, so yeah, that's what's his name again, anyway, he's the one that created the show with.
Papamutes:But I mean it was like a it's a puppet, a puppet kind of I mean.
David Silverman:There was a version. Was there a?
Papamutes:hand in there. What was going on? Yeah, a hand mostly.
David Silverman:They did have an elf suit and you move fit into the suit. They didn't. He's a very tiny guy and they didn't use that very often, but yeah, mostly, and they had a special stage design so it came about chest high.
David Silverman:That was the floor of the living room in the tanner household and so this guy could stand up and, like you know his, his head was basically floor level they could hold the puppet up like that and there were remote controls on his eyes and stuff in his ears that made them move around, and there's a whole group of people you know with the remote eyes and stuff and his ears that made them move around, and there's a whole group of people you know with the remote controls and stuff and doing that during this. So it was really involved. But yeah, he was hilarious. Paul Fusco is the guy who created the off show and he was really funny so, and Tom Patrick created the show with him.
Papamutes:It was a really fun show to work on. Yeah, classic. Um. So what's going on currently for you? Um, that I mean, besides the book which I recommend, uh, how to be a rock star screenwriter, at least pay the bills. I mean, I read portions of it that's online, you know, before it cuts off and uh, I'm like, oh, I gotta keep reading this, but anyway, you know what's going on, um, besides wanting to get the book out there, anything else.
David Silverman:oh, right, right, well, I should announce this actually, sure, so the book is, the kindle version is going to be free, uh, from july 4th through july 8th, and so it's kind of a experiment to see how that works and see if a lot of people pick it up for free. But if you're at all interested, if you know a screenwriter, if you have a son or a nephew or some some poor guy who has decided he wants to be a screenwriter, you know you need all the advantages, uh, you need all the good advice you can get, and that's sort of what is in the book. That's why I created the book for people and all the things we've talked about during the show, the rejections and how to keep your head in the game regardless of all the tough stuff you have to endure.
Papamutes:I mean it's a huge talking points. I mean these are great advice. Advice, if you uh, you want to get into that scene. It's not easy, but you know, you know you love it.
David Silverman:You got to do it, I mean, and this book sounds like it's right in the pathway um, yeah, it's great for anybody who wants to become a screenwriter or a television writer, so I talk about both. There's also a chapter on older writers. Sometimes I know a lot of people in their 40s and 50s. There's some advice on how to break in. It's easier to break in writing low-budget movies than it is otherwise, because the TV staffs are populated by twenty-somethings and thirty-somethings I'm sure, and when people hire more writers for that, they generally looking for people who kind of fit in. Unfortunately, there's a ageism issue in Hollywood. So there's a lot of good advice depending on what your ideas are, how old you, if you want to work from Nebraska or come out here, if you're thinking about film school, you're not sure there's advice on that.
Papamutes:Nice, excellent. Well, dave, I really appreciate you coming on. This has been a great, great talk.
David Silverman:Oh great. Thank you very much for having me. I appreciate it. It was a lot of fun.
Papamutes:This has been an Unmuted podcast with Papa Mutes.
