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Amy Nielsen - Worth It: From Homeless to Hero
A letter can change everything. For Amy Nielsen, it was a two-page note to her college-aged daughter explaining why curfews mattered—a window into Nielsen's tumultuous past as a homeless teen in 1980s Florida. That letter became the seed for "Worth It," her award-winning young adult novel about finding courage when everything around you is falling apart.
Her novel, which recently earned the Florida State Book Award's bronze medal, transforms her five-year struggle through homelessness and teenage pregnancy into a powerful fictional narrative set against the economic devastation of Central Florida's citrus freezes.
The result is a book that speaks directly to teens in crisis while offering guidance to friends and adults who want to help.
Nielsen's work extends to autism advocacy As the mother of an autistic son, she challenges harmful labels and misconceptions, emphasizing that non-speaking doesn't mean low-functioning and that autism may simply be "a normal part of the human genome."
The audiobook of "Worth It," narrated by Shealey Hannigan, recently named a finalist for Best Audiobook of 2024 by Indie Inc.
photos; courtesy of a.nielsen
“THE OPINIONS EXPRESSED OR VIEWS EXPRESSED BY GUESTS DO NOT NECESSARILY REFLECT OR REPRESENT THOSE OF THE HOST;
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You're listening to Unmuted with Papa Mutes. Hi, welcome to Papa Mutes everybody. Today my guest is Amy Nielsen. Amy is a librarian, an author and a literary agent. Her new book, worth it is on sale now. Set in Central Florida in the late 80s, worth it is the story of courage, redemption and the power of becoming your own hero. Amy is also a lover of all things autism. I'm thrilled to have her on. Amy, welcome to Pop and Mute.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for having me. I'm happy to be here.
Speaker 1:So before we get to the book, I think some people might think they know.
Speaker 2:But what does a literary agent do Sure Well for authors that are looking to score a traditional publishing deal so they would like to be published with a publisher that only accepts agented manuscripts. Basically, a literary agent is kind of like that bridge. So authors query me with their query letter, their synopsis, their first five pages of their manuscript, if it's a novel or a full, if it's a picture book, and then if it's something that I rep and I feel passionate that I can sell, then I sign them as a client and then I am able to open that door to publishers that otherwise would be closed to unagented authors.
Speaker 1:Now I mean are you getting a wide range of, like, people that have never written before and or people that have? I mean, how do you weed out? I mean, do you just say you know what? This is just not good enough. I mean, do you?
Speaker 2:Typically, agents open for submissions in a window period. So, for example, the first time that I opened for submissions, I received probably almost 848 hours. Yes, now I had done a lot of advertising about what I was looking for. I was looking to rep picture books, I was looking to rep YA, and most agents have what's called a manuscript wishlist. If you Google the agent's name and manuscript wishlist then that will come up and you can see specifically what they're looking for. So I am currently closed for submissions right now, but when I do open back up, I will be looking for thrillers and specifically, if you look at my manuscript wishlist, you can look at what kind of thrillers that I will be looking for. I'm about to probably sign two more picture book authors in the next week or so, so my picture book slots will be pretty full, but it's really helping be that bridge from author to being published.
Speaker 1:Well, you're the company again, correctly if I'm mispronouncing it, purcell.
Speaker 2:Yes, the Purcell agency.
Speaker 1:Now, where did they go? Did they go to that website? Did they go to your website?
Speaker 2:Well, you're going to go to query your. If you're an author, you probably have query tracker, which is where you're tracking, where you're sending your queries to. So that would be where you would go to follow like when I'm going to be open and hopefully, maybe in May or June I'm going to open back up. I had I was open for for Thriller queries a couple months ago and I had some great ones and there was one I really wanted and he got four offers of representation really wanted and he got four offers of representation and so he went with the agent that had a similar vision for his work that he did. So that was the one that got away. So I am still looking for something in that space specifically.
Speaker 1:So there's competition. In other words, they're not just coming to you, they're bouncing around.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and there are a ton of resources on my website so I have polishing your submission packet before querying. I have some self-editing guides that I've created specifically on the things that I've seen in submissions that could be improved. So I'd highly recommend authors check that out and really go through your submission before you start querying it, because typically you don't get a second chance to get in front of an agent's eyes.
Speaker 1:Now are you I think you said 800 hours or what have you? You're reading all that yourself.
Speaker 2:No, Well, what you're reading is first the query, and I have on my website the specific structure that a query should be in. It's a very simple template, and so the agent's going to read that and see is this something that I'm repping? Do I have something already that's very similar to this? Is this something that I'm not the best agent for? So I'm not the best agent for high concept fantasy or sci-fi, and you know.
Speaker 2:So that's kind of like the first place that you look and that's where a lot of agents can just go ahead and give quick passes. And, trust me, if you're an author and an agent isn't the right agent for you, you want a quick pass so you can move on. And then at that point then if it's something I'm looking for, then I would look at those opening pages, just see is the story starting in the right place? What's the quality of the craft of writing on a line level? And so you can typically tell that in like a page or two, and if the first couple of pages draw you in, then you keep reading and eventually, hopefully, it pulls me in enough that I request the full from you.
Speaker 1:So let's get to your book. Worth it? Not your first book, correct?
Speaker 2:Correct. It's my first novel.
Speaker 1:First novel. Okay, I mean, in the age of the internet, people can just Google that and get the idea. But for the sake of this podcast, what is it about? What made you want to write this?
Speaker 2:Sure. Well, it all goes back to a letter, ironically enough, and I was thinking about this today prior to chatting with you. So this book is inspired by my lived experience in the late 80s as a teen that was homeless, then living in poverty, eventually pregnant and with the hopes of a future looking very bleak. And that did change, obviously. And that baby that I had is now a 37-year-old, board-certified elder law attorney in the state of Florida, and I had a 20-plus year career as an educator, as a media specialist and television production teacher and now as a literary agent. But the genesis comes back to just. The genesis of any story to me is always so fascinating. But I had never planned to write this story.
Speaker 2:My daughter was home from college, she was 19. It was 2007. And she's like hey, mom, I'm going to go out with some friends tonight. And I'm like cool, see you at midnight. And she's like what? And I'm like yeah, I'll see you at midnight. And she was appalled that I had the audacity to impose a curfew on her at 19. And I said I can't sleep until I know that you're home safe and so you need to be home by midnight. And reluctantly she agreed.
Speaker 2:But after that when she left I got to thinking that there was so much about my life that I had not shared with her Most of it, because it wasn't age appropriate at the time for her to know some of the traumatic things that her biological father had been privy to in my life. And but I'm like it's time for her to know. And so I wrote her a two page letter kind of detailing some of that, skimming over some of the ugliest parts, but at least hinting that they were there, because my goal was for her to understand why I was such an a parent that cared and wanted to know, wanted to put things in place to keep my daughter safe, because there was no one when I was 17, 18, 19 doing anything to keep me safe. And so I wrote that letter two pages, and then I put a cover letter on it, cause I'm like I don't want her to cold read this and not have a clue. She needs to have a decision, kind of like a content note and a query. So I actually still have that letter. It's right here. I won't bother reading it to you, but it reminds me of why I wrote this. And so I snuck it in her backpack and the next day she drove back to college and called me, crying and saying I had no idea, thank you for sharing this with me, and we've pretty much been best friends ever since.
Speaker 2:So after that I decided to expand because the emotion that she felt from that. I thought maybe there are other girls out there that need to hear this type of message that you know, you can triumph over challenge and you can change the course of your life. You're not defined by this moment in time. And so I started it. I started pinning it in my library behind my circulation desk as memoir, but it just wasn't landing for me as memoir for many, many, many reasons. So what I did and I call this fictionalizing your past trauma is that you know turn it into a fictional story that you get to. You know be, be behind the steering wheel of what happens to these characters, and especially if the bad guy doesn't get what they deserve, then you can make sure they do how much of it is um, what's the word dramatizer, not dramatized?
Speaker 1:um, I mean, it's about your story, so to speak, but is there any uh added, uh drama that just for the sake of storytelling?
Speaker 2:absolutely so. I am a big fan of the save the cat story structure.
Speaker 1:If you're not familiar with that, it's oh yeah, I got it right there right a lot of authors aren't, um.
Speaker 2:But once I started digging into the craft of writing on a line level and structurally, I really felt like that was the best format for me to use the best structure. So I started deconstructing the memoir I'm putting into that and, organically, there were characters that had to disappear, there were characters I had to combine, there were elements of story structure that weren't present in my memoir because it just didn't happen that way. And one of the biggest things that I did was in my real lived experience I was in that. Can you say bad words on this show? I was in that hellhole for five years and I didn't want that to be my main character's journey. I wanted her to come to the realization that she was worth more, much quicker than I did in my real life, and so I really tightened the structure, which helped with the pacing etc. And the story takes place in the late 80s, after in Central Florida, after the aftermath of back to back citrus freezes, or freezes that crippled the citrus industry and sent this small town into economic just you know turmoil and that's true, and so that's kind of the backdrop that this family begins to just implode because you know they went, they moved to this town to be part of the booming citrus industry and then now you know, within a couple of years, it's gone and so the whole town was basically in turmoil. But we really hyper focus on this one girl's experience and how, eventually, you know, she, she climbs out of that is like how much is the emotion? Every emotion is a hundred percent real.
Speaker 2:There are some characters that, like I said, that had to disappear for story structure, and some characters that had that I combined, et cetera.
Speaker 2:But I think when you really hone in on a story structure, it helps you make those decisions. And also, if you have a story that you want to tell and you're concerned about, memoir is a tough sell. I know I listened to your interview with Amanda Quick, which was fascinating, um, and you know, but most of us don't have that big of a story to tell, even though it's a big to us, and so without a huge platform or you know things like that, I have one memoirs that I rep, but it's a tough sell to get memoir out there. Um, and also there are some legalities involved that I did not want to have to worry about so I could change character names and places and you know that sort of thing and and actually kind of fictionalize this part of my life that I don't regret because it made me who I am today. But I could wrap it up in fiction and kind of put that piece of my life a little bit distant yeah now, what uh?
Speaker 1:what uh genre? I mean young adult, or how how would it fall under?
Speaker 2:I mean, anybody could read I'm assuming, yeah, it would be young adult sub-genre. You could classify it as historical issue driven, um, a little bit of a thriller element in there, uh, but but young adult is definitely the age range. Most of the readers have been adult and I'm excited, actually, because next month I'm going to be presenting in the hometown where this story takes place, which I did fictionalize the hometown, but it's still the hometown so that's going to be super fun to kind of go back where where I grew up and where I was a librarian in that public school for many, many, many years, and so that's going to be fun. Because there is some, even though it is a story of a challenging time in this young girl's life, there are a lot of positives and one of the things that I really tried to highlight was the people in the community that were encouraging, even though this main character did not believe a lot of their encouraging words at the time and it's sometimes it was strangers drifting in and out of her life giving her encouraging words and eventually she believes them and so I.
Speaker 2:There's back matter in the novel. There's a, there's an author's note to the teens in the room and it's kind of geared toward the teens that are in crisis and don't wait as long as this main character did to reach out to someone for help. And it's to the teens that aren't in crisis, that have loving and supportive families, to how to be a good friend to someone who needs you to be a good friend. That may be a teen in crisis. And then the biggest note is the note to the adults in the room and our responsibility as educators, as parents, as community members, to uplift the most vulnerable of us all, even if that's just a kind word and saying that you're worth more than the situation that you're in, and I have faith in you.
Speaker 1:Now the town.
Speaker 2:Can you tell us the town, or yeah, it's based on the fictional town of Umatilla, florida, which is in central Florida.
Speaker 2:In the story I call it North Lake.
Speaker 2:Umatilla is called like the North Lake.
Speaker 2:It is the, I think, most northern city in Lake County, florida and it is a very, very, very small town that was home to a booming citrus industry in the 70s and 80s and probably even prior to that, and a citrus plant that most families had someone that worked at, and so my family moved there to be part of that industry.
Speaker 2:My father had been in the chemical industry, which was dangerous, and so we went to be part of the citrus industry with my grandparents and again, back-to-back freezes kind of crippled that, and so our own family was thrust into poverty, like many other families in that area. And so there is some historical background information and I don't try to weigh heavy into that, as this is intended for a young adult audience and I also don't weigh heavy into the pop culture, so it feels a little more accessible to teen readers and I've had a lot of parents reach out to me and say this is a book that I think every teen should read, just because a lot of the messages are so universal, especially even in, you know, for teens today.
Speaker 1:Sure, Now you actually recently I believe the beginning of this month won an award, right, Tell us about that.
Speaker 2:Yes, I did the Florida State Book Award, which is very exciting.
Speaker 2:There's the sticker.
Speaker 2:So I came in bronze in the young adult category and there was a ceremony in Tallahassee I got to attend and the book award is sponsored by Florida State University and so recognizing, you know, Florida literature that has excelled and made a difference in people's lives, and so that was quite an honor and you know to know that that work is out there.
Speaker 2:I've also partnered with a couple of local nonprofits. One is Hillsborough Teens Connect, which is a nonprofit that has teen navigators that answer the phone to teens in crisis and help point them to resources, and another is called YA by the Bay. That is a young adult literature conference where we present authors come from across the country and agents as well, and we are accessible to teens and we teach them how to become the authors of their own life through the stories that we have written and workshops and that will be taking place in September in Tampa Bay and it's free to teens and then we open to the public one day as well. I got to meet and hang out with RL Stein there the last time, which was quite cool.
Speaker 1:Wow, cool. Now I know on your website, I believe or maybe it's the Purcell, I'm saying that right, you do book trailers.
Speaker 2:Yes, so I. I was a media specialist, slash librarian for 20 years and one of the other things that I did was I taught television production, and one of the one of the assignments I would always have my students do is in groups, they would pick a book and read together like a book club and then make a book trailer for it. So that's one of the things that I've continued to do for authors is help create book trailers. I really enjoy still dipping my toes into the technology aspect of what I used to do when I was working at the school, and so I do those freelance for authors On my website. I've got several examples and I do of a. A lot of people on Tik TOK are doing an amazing trailers of their own, but I do more of a YouTube style traditional type trailer that you would see, as opposed to these other younger creatives that you know are doing such a great job over on Tik TOK and book talk. But but yeah, I love.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I watched a couple and they're very good. It's a great idea. I mean I, yeah, good, it's a great idea. I mean, um, I, yeah, it's like.
Speaker 2:It's like I mean a movie trailer for a book, yeah, basically, well, I think um, I do a presentation on this as well, on how to make, why you should and how to make a book trailer for your book. I think it's on my website for free. You can watch it, but up to 80 of internet consumption is video, so if you are even a querying author it, it can be an excellent tool in your querying toolbox to have a link and an email to an editor or on your website for a trailer that they can watch. Actually, the publisher that I am published with watched my trailer and then was interested in reading my query and opening pages and then was interested in reading my query and opening pages. So visuals can have a huge impact on you getting over across that finish line. A lot of people on Twitter do mood boards and things like that. That's another good thing to do, but just giving a visual aspect to your work can really help you across that finish line.
Speaker 1:Who is your publisher?
Speaker 2:Wild Ink Publishing. They're amazing. They're a small press and I have really enjoyed working with Wild Ink so they've been phenomenal. So I published without an agent and then became an agent, so there are many paths to publication. And you mentioned that I'm a lover of all things autism. My youngest son is autistic and I, despite rhetoric going on around about autism right now, wouldn't change a thing about him if I could.
Speaker 2:And I do have two books published through Wild Inc as well. One is a picture book called Goldilocks and the Three Bears, understanding Autism Spectrum Disorder. So, if you didn't know, goldilocks is autistic. She has eloped from her home. She doesn't understand social norms and goes into someone's house without knocking. She has sensory sensitivities to temperature, texture, taste.
Speaker 2:So it took a lot of the qualities that a person on the autism spectrum might exhibit and gave more of those to Goldilocks. And it also has a discussion guide to use with neurotypical children to help them understand their autistic peers, friends and neighbors, and also a glossary of terms, and I did work with a special education teacher to create that. And then I have another nonfiction about autism called it Takes a Village how to Build a Support System for your Exceptional Needs Family, and that is basically a guide to help families in the beginning stages of the diagnosis navigate how to build a support system and what that can look like. Even if you feel like you don't have a support system, it's a step-by-step guide to help you build one, because there are people out there that want to be a part of your support system. You just may not have found them yet.
Speaker 1:So I mean, I'm sure there are a ton of to this question, but what is one of the misconceptions that people that don't deal with autistic people?
Speaker 2:I think and this is a timely example, I think the difference between speaking and non-speaking. A lot of times non-speaking autistic individuals are labeled as low functioning, when that is absolutely not the truth. Many of our non-speakers in the autism community are artists, writers, musicians, very intellectual, and many of our speakers struggle the most with social, emotional, development, sensory sensitivities, etc. So I think that's a common misconception the phrase has been used and I do not like functioning terms at all but that high functioning autism ignores my struggles while low functioning autism ignores my strengths. And so I think you know, looking at the autistic individual as a whole, my son is 10, he is speaking. There was a time that he was non speaking, but that really didn't. That wasn't the biggest issue that we had. The biggest issue was other things. And he is doing great now after years and years and years and years and years and years of therapy and decisions and special education and doing what our providers told us to do and listening to people that we trusted. You know, told us to do and listening to the people that we trusted and actually he just had a physical today and he was struggling in a lot of areas. Even autism can become, can affect your physical body as well in a lot of different ways. And so last year he was having some issues with that and today he got a clean bill of health and he was so excited with that. And today he got a clean bill of health and he was so excited. But and autism is? I interviewed a woman from a fortune 500 company who her goal is to recruit autistic individuals into their company, and one of the things that she and I discussed and she had done a lot of research about autism and is an expert in the field is that there is a growing theory that being autistic is a normal part of the human genome, so that there are going to be, naturally, people with different developed brains, and that it's not a disease, that it is just a normal part of human development, that some people will be born on the spectrum and some people won't, and that doesn't mean that it's not easy, it doesn't mean that it's not difficult, because it is, but my son has brought nothing but joy into our family. Even in the most difficult of moments, there are those special moments that just don't exist outside of that.
Speaker 2:According to the DSM-5, which is the Diagnostic and Statistic Manual that diagnoses mental health disorders. Autism is marked by two specific things. One is a struggle in social or verbal and nonverbal communication, and then there's many criteria under that. And then the other is a tendency to have repetitive and atypical behaviors, and then there's several things under that and within each of those two categories a child can be level one, two or three, so you can be a one in verbal communication and a three that you don't have those repetitive and atypical behaviors. So it's different for everyone. It's looking at the whole child and the whole family and what that family needs as as, as opposed to some blanket, you know descriptor that buckets kids into some list. That really is not fair. Like I said, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:So um, back to your book. Have you ever thought of it? As I mean, I think a lot of authors may think of having it made into a movie.
Speaker 2:Well, I did just the book. The audio book is now out and so that's kind of a theatrical performance in itself. I, the narrator, was fabulous, so if you're interested, I highly recommend that you listen to a portion of her narration. I love audio books and actually I'm a finalist for an Indie Inc Book Award for Best Audiobook of 2024. So I find out in September about that. But she did such a fabulous job. But I think, yeah, I think all authors you know hope that their book is one day a movie, but I'm just honored that it's out there in print. I'm really excited that it's more accessible to other people because it is now also in an audio book. You can download it from Audible and listen to a sample. Again, the performance of the narrator was just absolutely stellar.
Speaker 1:Who was it Her?
Speaker 2:name is Shaley Hannigan, so shout out to you, shaylee, you did a fabulous job.
Speaker 1:Nice, any other books in the works or in your mind at least, that you know for you?
Speaker 2:to read. Yes, actually, my colleague Tina Swartz, who is the founder of Purcell Agency. She and I have been doing writing sprints on Thursdays because as an agent you sometimes feel guilty, you know, working on your own stuff as opposed to working on your clients. But it's also important to stay in that creative space, and so we've been doing writing sprints. So today we had a writing sprint so I worked for an hour of my own work.
Speaker 2:So my, my next novel is also issue driven if that's the term that you kind of want to use for these and it's also a girl that's living in poverty. It's loosely based on my father's life growing up in the projects of Southern Mississippi, but it's a female protagonist and I'm really excited about it. There's a found family of barbers that take this girl in, and that's just been super fun. So it's also got a little bit of a speculative element to it, which is new for me. There is a lake called a river, called the Singing River in Pascagoula, mississippi, and there's a little bit of a folklore to that that I'm bringing into the to the novel as well. So that's been fun to do some research and kind of put myself in the time period of when my dad was growing up, so super fun put myself in the time period of when my dad was growing up.
Speaker 1:So super fun, awesome Sounds great.
Speaker 2:Do you have a favorite?
Speaker 1:book. You know, I mean I'm sure you've read millions. Yes, you do. You have a. I mean a go to like, oh, you've got to read this book, not something current, but like a favorite book. Even if it's an old classic, you have a favorite book.
Speaker 2:This maybe makes me seem a little disturbed, but the Awakening by Kate Chopin is probably my favorite classic of all time. Well, my favorite young adult novel that I've recently read is written by a friend of mine. It's called Old Palmetto Drive by SE Reid. So good, I could not put it down. And it also takes place in Florida, and she is also a Florida Book Award winner for a different book, but it's so, so, so good. Just all the Florida vibes you would want. You know Four-Wheel Enthusiasm, everglades, and it's a sapphic teen romance and I just loved every bit of it. There's a little bit of a thriller mystery element to it as well, so really good Sweet.
Speaker 1:Okay, great, I'm going to segue into a section here and I'm going to give you a couple of choices. You just tell me what your preference is, For instance fiction or nonfiction. I think I know the answer.
Speaker 2:Fiction.
Speaker 1:Boom, definitely Reading or writing.
Speaker 2:Probably reading, Even though I love to write. I do a lot more reading and I find joy helping improve other people's work. It's a lot harder. It's a lot harder to create your own words and help someone else's get better understood um.
Speaker 1:Should I whisper this dog or cat?
Speaker 2:absolutely dog. You see her back there and she cute. What's her name? That's my sandy girl, so she's a rescue pup and she has cute.
Speaker 1:What's her name?
Speaker 2:That's my Sandy girl. So she's a rescue pup and she has to be here because if she's not, she'd be barking outside the door. She's my little shadow.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she's chilling for sure Classic Pizza or pasta.
Speaker 2:Oh, I heard you have an argument with a guest over this, so I'm just going to do Well, you know the answer. Then I'm going to say pasta.
Speaker 1:There you go.
Speaker 2:Absolutely gotta go pasta I mean, I love pizza too, but um beach or swimming pool um, I live in florida, but I'm still gonna say swimming pool, because we boat a lot in the ocean and if I can see the bottom I'm fine, but if I can't, I am not getting in. So I'd rather swim in a pool and boat in the ocean.
Speaker 1:All right, a little different spin.
Speaker 2:Submarine or hot air balloon. I'm a big old scaredy cat so I'd say neither if I can opt out.
Speaker 1:That's a first on Papa Mews Opting out. All right, no problem. I mean, honestly, I'm going to have to go hot air balloon submarine. I was in a submarine, oh wow, but not. I mean, you know it was like a museum, but it was a real submarine. I was like man, I'm not claustrophobic but maybe I am. It was weird. Anyway, I mean really small.
Speaker 2:Back when I was a child, there was 20,000 leagues under the sea at Disney in Orlando. It's not there anymore, but I was scared even going in that ride um steak or lobster steak 100.
Speaker 1:Wow, snowstorm or rainstorm again. Living in florida, I love our rainstorms.
Speaker 2:Okay, all right lunch date or dinner date? I'm gonna go lunch date because when my son's in school, my husband and I can sneak out for lunch and not have to hire a babysitter.
Speaker 1:There you go. I thought I know the answer already Audiobook or physical book?
Speaker 2:Probably audio. I don't know. I love hearing performances. I typically do both. I'll have the book and the audio book. When I'm walking, I listen to the audio. When I'm in my house, I read the book. So I guess that would be kind of both.
Speaker 1:So, other than Google, where can the book be found? I mean, is it in libraries or Some.
Speaker 2:I mean it depends If it's not in your local library you can request it, but obviously on Amazon, uh, barnes and Noble, um, you can go to wilding, uh, publishing, wild dash ink publishingcom, I think is the website.
Speaker 2:You again, you can Google that but, my author website is www, not Amy Nielsen. N I E L S E N, authorcom and writing resources for authors that want to get across. That finish line is probably where you're going to want to start, but you can also see, I do do some freelance editing. I don't do fulls, I do freelance editing for submission packets. So I'm talking about your query, your submission and like your first 10 pages or full if it's a picture book, so I have that service available as well. As you know, I can coach people through making a book trailer if that's something that they want to do, and I highly encourage you to do it. I will be presenting this summer at a conference on how and why to make a book trailer. So I just think that visual element, like we talked about earlier, is important for for readers and for agents and publishers to kind of see you know what this would look like if it's if, if we're watching it instead of reading it.
Speaker 1:So Well, that sounds great. I mean, go out there and get this book. I've been saving this for the end. I'm sure it's worth it. I said don't do it, don't do it, but I had to. I had to list that out there. Um, but, no, really, I appreciate you taking time to come on. Uh, I appreciate you.
Speaker 2:Thank you very much. It was an honor to speak on your podcast. I've been a long-time listener and listened to several of your episodes, and so it was a joy to be able to chat here, and hopefully something that I've shared will help another get across the publishing line or someone that needs some encouragement on how to become your own hero by reading Worth it.
Speaker 1:Thank you very much. You're listening to Unmuted with Papa Mutes.
