Papamutes
Authors, Books & More - Hosted by Papamutes. Get to know the authors behind their books. It's fun and laughs are always welcome.
Papamutes
Mark W. Travis - Tifi.us
Filmmakers around the world regard Mark W. Travis as the most outstanding teacher and consultant on the art of film directing. Fueled by the desire to generate organic and authentic performances in an instant, Mark developed a director-centered approach called The Travis Technique, which earned him the nickname, “the director’s director.” The Travis Technique is not limited to filmmakers; it has also proven to be an essential set of tools for writers and actors and all who wish to tell compelling stories. Listen now as Mark chats with Papamutes about his early years at Yale School of Drama, then to LA and the creation of TIFI. Travis International Film Institute.
photos courtesy of: mark w. travis
Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeart Radio, Castro, Google Podcasts or wherever you stream your podcasts.
Speaker 1:
You are listening to Unmuted with Papamutes.
Papamutes:
Welcome to Papamutes, everybody. Today my guest is Mark Travis. Mark is a director, writer, actor, consultant. Mark is regarded by international professionals as the world's leading authority in the art and craft of film directing, also the creator of the Travis technique. Mark, welcome to Papamutes.
Mark Travis:
Thank you. Thank you, Papamutes, and it's wonderful to be here with you.
Papamutes:
Now, you're in Hawaii, so I have to cut to the chase. How's the weather?
Mark Travis:
Yep.
Papamutes:
I mean, important stuff here.
Mark Travis:
Well, this is going to sound boring. It's the same. It's sunny. It's about 70 some degrees out there. The sun is shining and the beach is beautiful. It's pretty much the same all year round. It doesn't change that much here.
Papamutes:
I feel bad for you.
Mark Travis:
It's gorgeous.
Papamutes:
Now, is it-
Mark Travis:
And then...
Papamutes:
I mean, is it humid, I mean, or no?
Mark Travis:
Oh, yeah, it's humid. I mean, it's tropical. It's not Florida. Florida is somewhat humid, but it's very, very tropical. It's very humid. So a lot of people who come here, have to get used to the humidity. Or when I go back to LA, I have to get used to the dryness in LA because that's desert and you can feel it, but it's humid, but that's good. Humidity is good for the skin. It's good for the health and everything.
Papamutes:
Rather be warm than cold. That's for sure.
Mark Travis:
Yep.
Papamutes:
Before we go into backstories, what is the Travis technique?
Mark Travis:
Well, that's a great question. The term, the Travis technique, over my years of doing this work has been applied to a lot of different things. Now it's applied to everything I do. So it's a combination, really, of many, many techniques that I have developed or use or have discovered in the art and craft of film directing, filmmaking, and stepping back a little bit even from that, in terms of storytelling. My primary focus is on storytelling.
Now, then it goes quickly into theater and film and all of that. But the Travis technique is a collection of techniques, primarily working with script actors, characters, performance, and things like that.
Papamutes:
Just to backtrack into film, way back when, what was your initial, "Hey, I want to get involved with film, or directing or acting, because it's not an easy business."
Mark Travis:
If you have a moment, I'll tell you an interesting story.
Papamutes:
I'm here.
Mark Travis:
This goes back to my college years, and I was going to Antioch College, which you may not know about, and most of your listeners won't know about it. It's a very progressive college in Ohio, and it's a college that is really set up to help people who don't know what they want to do in their life, find a purpose, find a goal. So because of that, I got in and I, because I was really wandering around in terms of what I wanted to do with my life. I had no idea.
One day I was walking across the campus and really thinking where am I going? What am I going to do really in that mood? And I heard a sound, and the sound I heard was the sound of a very sharp saw cutting through wood, that high pierced sound.
Now, my father was an amateur carpenter. More than amateur, he restored houses and things like that. And then he taught me how to use all these tools. So this had an emotional connection for me. So I heard that sound, and I said, "Okay, I'm going towards that sound." I went to the sound. I come up upon this big building, and I look inside and people are in there cutting wood, putting... They're building something. I don't know what they're building. I'm watching, and someone says, "Can I help you?" And I said, "No, no, I'm just curious. I'm watching you." And they said, "Well, do you want to help? We could use some more help?" And I said, "Yeah, I'd love to." Because I sort of knew what they were doing.
So I started helping them. And then eventually, I don't think it was the same day, but eventually they said they were looking at blueprints, and they said, "Can you read blueprints?" Well, I'd been studying architecture and all that, so I could read blueprints. And they said, "Could you build this?" And they showed me a blueprint of a stool, a wooden stool. I said, "Oh, yeah, I can build that." They said, "Okay, build that." So I built it.
At this building, I was happy. I was really, really happy, Papamutes. I was having a great time. I had really not too much of an idea of what we were doing. Later, not that much later, I discovered we were building a set for a play. I went, "Oh, okay." And so I kept working with them and I helped all the way through the mounting of the set and putting it up and everything like that. That's what pulled me into the world of theater.
I realized what a wonderful time these people were having in an environment of make believe, creativity, imagination and all that. And I was happy there, so I stayed. And then quickly... It didn't take long. I mean, I helped build a lot of sets. Then I started designing sets. I'd had some background in design and art and architecture. I would design sets and I would build sets. One day I'm watching a play that I had designed the set for. It was a Brecht play, The Good Woman of Setzuan. And I was watching it.
I'm watching the actors on the stage on my set, and I thought, "Huh, I think they're having way more fun than I am." So then I decided I will try acting. So I went to auditions and stuff like that. I eventually got into a play, and then I was into a major production. They were doing. This is at college. I was the lead. I remember one day standing on the set and we had just run the scene, and the director is sitting out in the audience and he's giving us notes.
I looked at him and I thought, he's having way more fun than I am. So then I started pursuing directing. And then once I started pursuing directing... Now, I kept doing everything I had been doing. I kept designing. I started writing plays. I was acting in plays, and I was directing all the time I was in college. And that's how I got into that world and finished at college, went to Yale Drama School to study for MFA program. And then after that, eventually found my way to Los Angeles where I was directing theater, but I was also then moving into film and television. So that's how I got in.
Papamutes:
Okay. And you, as I may have mentioned, considered the director's director. So let me ask you this, we'll cut right to the core of it, what should all directors have?
Mark Travis:
What should all directors-
Papamutes:
What's the number one thing? Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of different jobs they have. There's a lot of different balls they're juggling. But what do they have to have? One thing.
Mark Travis:
Well, one thing... I'm going to make it two, but one thing is-
Papamutes:
That's fine. Amazing.
Mark Travis:
The first one will be very obvious, a good sense of story and how story works. In other words, a good background and education and stories, study stories, study scripts. Not just film scripts, any kind of script, any kind stories. The directors who really understand either by education or by instinct, how a story works are going to be stronger directors, automatically. Second thing is understand very... This is where my training comes in, and my teaching and consulting comes in.
Understand the artistic and psychological techniques of working with actors. Because if you're going to make a film at the center of your film, it's going to be people, usually. There's a few films that there's no people, but they're going to be people. And you're going to have actors playing those people. And your job is to not only cast them, but work with them, rehearse with them, and get the performance you need to make the story work.
And that process of working with actors is very unique in one way. A director, a film director, and I know this as a director, and having worked with a lot of director, if you don't know, let's say you really don't know much about cameras. You don't. I mean, you know what they do, sort of, but you don't have a lot of experience or background. You'll be fine. Get a good cinematographer, establish a good working relationship and a good lighting gaffer and all that. In other words, you can be fine because there are people there to help you because there are other people doing this.
The same with sound, the same with costume design, production design. You don't have to know a lot about it. You have to know what you want pretty much. But in the world of working with actors, and this is almost a joke, if you're on the set and you're not getting the performance you want from that actor, don't think you can turn to somebody else in the crew for help. It won't work.
So this is that one part of directing that is totally in the hands of the director. If you are having trouble, people on the crew would just go, "I don't know. This is your job, not mine, not mine." Now, you can ask for help with the sound. You can ask for help with the camera. You can ask for help with lots of things, and people will help you. So knowing how to work with actors, how to get performance, and how story works, that's it.
Papamutes:
What do you do? What tell, what would you tell a young director or a director in general who's pretty green? I mean, some actors, I'm assuming, just like in life, not everyone is pleasant. What do you do with someone who's just a, I don't know what's the word, a pompous ass?
Mark Travis:
Are you talking about the actors?
Papamutes:
I'm talking about the actor. Now, you come in as a young director and you got to deal with people. You got to be a people person. But some people are a little pompous, I'm assuming. Not everybody is pleasant actor wise.
Mark Travis:
No, that's true. Now, first of all, we have to step back from that a little bit because if you're coming in as a young director, and you have this problem working with these actors, were you responsible in any way for casting that person? Now, if you're coming in into television, very likely not. There's a cast of characters, actors there already you're working with. But if it's an independent film you're making, then you cast that person. Then my first question to the director would be, "Why did you cast this person? Why?"
Now, there's got to be a good reason. You got to know what that reason is. But to get beyond that, one thing that's very important, an actor, any actor, regardless of their skills or abilities, or even experience, an actor who is problematic, the reason they're problematic is there's a problem.
The problem is not the actor. The actor is reacting to a problem. He may be feeling insecure. He may be feeling unsupported. He may be frightened of the character he is about to play or the scene is... This could be... Or there could be personal things going on. Your job as a director working with actors, half of your job is psychological, is understanding human behavior. You could have a problematic director who's been a sweetheart for the past week, and suddenly he's a problem.
Now, you've got a problem, and you've got to help that person get past those problems and get to the work that has to be done that day and hopefully do a decent enough job. Many times the problem is the director. And many times, to make it even worse, the problem is the director only blaming the actor as being the problem and not seeing that he or the situation, or there are other things, circumstances that are going on that are creating that problem.
Papamutes:
I mean, on the flip side of the coin, you could have an actor who he's green, or she's green, a little nervous. You got to-
Mark Travis:
Absolutely.
Papamutes:
... push them through, get past that. And maybe they're acting with someone who's... Not famous, but more famous than they are, so to speak. Now they're nervous. I mean-
Mark Travis:
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. My ex-wife was in... She's been in a lot of television and all that, and she was in one TV show where she had... In one scene, she had one line. One line in the middle of a big, chaotic scene, one line. Now, that's a horrible situation for an actor. And she was having trouble with it, just delivering that one line, just the way they wanted it. And the director unfortunately kept getting angrier and angrier at her. "Why can't you just do it?"
Not understanding why an accomplished actress would be having trouble with one line, which brings up another important thing for all the directors out there who are listening now, or want to be directors or people who are pursuing that career, do yourself a big favor. Take an acting class.
Papamutes:
Makes sense.
Mark Travis:
Study acting as an actor, and take an acting class. And hopefully you're in there with a lot of good actors, and hopefully you have a good acting teacher. Once you start experiencing what it's like to be an actor, you'll have more appreciation and understanding for what actors are going through. Actors, in many ways are like horses. A horse as you know, you get on a horse, the horse knows immediately whether or not you know what you're doing. Actors have the same thing with directors in terms of not... If they know what they're doing in terms of directing the movie. Not that at all. If they know what they're doing in terms of working with actors. An actor can smell it in a minute.
The best way to do that is learn. Don't pretend. Learn and be humble. Be really, really humble. Drop the arrogance, drop the attitude like, "I'm the director. I know what I want." Now, I'm starting to move into a whole nother territory, but which is judging a performance and what is the correct performance and all that, which can be a huge, huge issue. If you look at a lot of top directors that are out there now, for years have been out there, a lot of them work as actors. A lot of them worked in theater, which is the most difficult place. And the other thing I would say to a lot of young actors, if you really want to learn how to direct actors, don't direct a film, direct a play.
It's a lot harder. It's a lot harder, but it'll really test you. It'll really test you. Because film, as you know, as everybody knows, you can be shooting that scene and all you need is that scene, that moment, that line in a certain way on film, and you've got it. Play you have to work with those actors and develop the characters and the whole play to the point that it can play every night eight times a week. And those actors can keep coming back and more or less repeat what you've been working on.
It's a more difficult process. But also, you're going to learn things by directing in theater that will serve you so well directing in film. And if you've been directing theater, the actors know it. They can feel it when they're talking to you. They know. They know by your language, by your attitude and all that. In other words, you have to work on yourself as a director to become a good actor's director.
Papamutes:
When you moved to LA, how old were you approximately?
Mark Travis:
That was back in the early '70s. So I was in my 30s.
Papamutes:
What did you do? I mean, you plopped down and did you have a game plan? Because you hear about people [inaudible 00:17:16] going to LA. "I'm going to go to LA. I don't have any money in my pocket, and I'm going to be famous."
Mark Travis:
This is another story. As I told you, I was studying at Yale, Yale School of Drama. One of the bulletin boards at Yale was a letter from the head of MGM, a guy named Herb Solow who basically said, "Any graduates of Yale, if you come to LA, look me up and I'll do what I can to help you." Or something like that. One of those. I saw that, and I went, "Huh, how about that?" After I was finished at Yale, I decided I wanted to go to LA because I wanted to get into film and television. I went to LA. I had no job, I had nothing, and I had enough money to survive.
Papamutes:
Where did you live? Did you have a place to-
Mark Travis:
I found a cheap apartment in a very bad part of town. But my goal was to get to MGM where Herb Solow was. So I started calling immediately. Now I'm calling the head of an entire studio. Not just somebody. I was lucky that I got somewhat close to him. I got to some secretary or someone who said, "No, no, you can't speak to him. But I kept calling." I kept calling. I said, "Listen, he had this letter. I'm from Yale." blah, blah, blah. Thinking that would help.
I kept pursuing it, and I kept getting turned down, but I kept at it. I would call every day. Finally, her name was Elizabeth, his assistant, one of his assistants got on the phone and said, "Mark, you've been calling every single day.
I said, "I know. Okay, what can you do?" So then I told her exactly what I want and she says, "Well, let me see what I can do and call me back on another time." So I called her back a few days later and she says, "You have an appointment?" I said, "Really? Great." I thought, "Well, of course I should. I'm from Yale, blah, blah, blah. I'm at theater director and all that." He wrote the letter and all that. I go in there and to meet him, and I go into this huge building and then I'm ushered into his office by Elizabeth. And she said, "Just wait right here." He's in there. He's in the office, and he is on the phone, and he's doing... It was almost a cliche, Papamutes.
Out of a film, the producer on the phone about this. I'm sitting there going, "Wow, this is a amazing. Huge office, big pictures, big windows. Just amazing."
Papamutes:
Were you nervous?
Mark Travis:
Yeah, I was nervous. I was nervous and excited at the same time. I'm in MGM. I'm the head of MGMs office. I'm in there basically asking for a job. That's all I'm doing.
Papamutes:
Wow.
Mark Travis:
And then I remember when he got off the phone, he put the phone down and he stared at me and he said, "What the hell do you want with me?" And I said, "Well, this is a good beginning." He'd heard about this guy that kept calling.
Papamutes:
Persistence.
Mark Travis:
So he knew. I told him exactly what I wanted. I said, "This is what I'm doing, da, da, da. This is my studies, theater, Yale, all that. There was a letter there from you. I'm coming here and I want a job." And he said something like, "Okay. Show up here Monday morning at 10:00." I said, "That's it." I had no idea what it was. I came back on Monday morning at 10:00 and I had a job working on a TV series, basically as a production assistant. The lowest level. But it was a job, and it was a paid job. It wasn't free. It wasn't volunteer.
Papamutes:
Was it a popular TV series? Was it [inaudible 00:21:01]
Mark Travis:
Well, they were actually doing several series. They were doing Medical Center. They were doing Then Came Bronson, Courtship of Eddie's Father. All those. Suddenly, I had gotten over that threshold. And that's when I started learning the film business. Film and TV simultaneously, because I had no experience in either of them and started to learn how my background experience in theater was so different from what was needed in film, but also my background experience in theater was helping me and could help other people in terms of what they were doing. That's when I started to see all those worlds coming together. And since that time that's the world I've worked in
Papamutes:
Now, how did the Travis Institute and the Travis technique come about?
Mark Travis:
In early '90s, this is much longer story, so we won't get into it, but if you want to do it at another time, I directed my first feature film for Warner Brothers. Different studio. And how I got that job, long story. The film did not do well. That's another long story, interesting story. But it came out. It did not do well. For a while, I had the period of time while I was a young hot director because I was directing something for Warner Brothers. It was not a big budget. It's like a $9 million movie, but it's a movie. It's Warner Brothers, all that.
Papamutes:
Excuse me for interrupting, but how did you get that job? Did you-
Mark Travis:
Well, that's the long story. How much time... I mean it's-
Papamutes:
Condense it. Did they pick you and say, "Let's try this guy?" Or did you apply? I don't know how it works or how it worked back then,
Mark Travis:
No. I'll try to make it as short as possible.
Papamutes:
Okay.
Mark Travis:
One of the things I was involved in that time and still is working with actors, developing one person shows, which I'm very, very good at. At that time, one of the shows that I had created with the actor called A Bronx Tale. It was running in Los Angeles. It was hot. All the studios wanted it. Now because of the studios wanting it, and because Chazz and I... Chazz Palminteri, the actor and I deciding, "We're not going to sell it. We're not going to sell it yet." We're holding back, which was a smart thing to do.
So the studios just wanted to get to us. So it was very easy for me to get an appointment at a major studio because they wanted to talk about Bronx Tale, which I would talk to them about it, but I wouldn't give in to what they want anyways.
That's part of the energy. Meanwhile, two other people had come to me. They're now new friends, writer, producers with this script that they were trying to get made as an independent film or on a pickup deal with a studio. So I could get into a studio and get an appointment to talk about that script, knowing I'm going to have to talk about Bronx Tale at the beginning.
So I was in the door, and because of that and because of the strength of Bronx Tale, they never questioned me directing it. They said, "Yeah, you can do this." Almost like they were saying, "Give this guy this film, but we still want to try to get Bronx Tale." So it's a much more complicated story than that and interesting. But that's how I got in, which means my story to any young director out there is not very helpful except if you create something that generates a lot of interest from the studio.
Now, I had created a one man show which eventually became a film and a Broadway show and all that. But if you have created something that'll attract their attention, now you're in. Now you're in. It's not just, "Oh, I got a great script. I'll send it in you and 10,000 other people are sending in scripts." You and 10,000 other people are writing letters. The way to get their attention is to do something, create something that they want, that they probably can't have, or only one of them can have something like that. It's a way. Now, that was not my plan at all. That's just the way things worked out.
Papamutes:
It happens.
Mark Travis:
Right.
Papamutes:
I mean, A Bronx Tale is one of my favorite movies. I'd never seen the one man show that Chazz has. Just briefly, when did you first meet Chazz Palminteri? How'd that come about?
Mark Travis:
This is all about the same time. Same bunch of you, decade. At that time, I was a member of a theater in Los Angeles called Theater West. It's a membership theater. I was the artistic moderator which means we would do acting workshops and stuff like that. I would moderate the workshop and it's not the artistic director, but I'm working with a lot of actors there. While I'm working with their... We were also doing auditions. I remember the time Chazz came to audition to become a member of the company and he was by then-
Papamutes:
This time, he's not known, right?
Mark Travis:
No.
Papamutes:
He's not known at all.
Mark Travis:
Not at all. Nothing. But when I say nothing, nothing, I mean, that's where a lot of actors are at some point. Nothing. So I got to know him and we became friends. He would tell me stories about his childhood and stuff like that and we would share a lot of stories. And then one day he came to me... Because he was trying to get a job. An acting job. He needed a monologue for an audition, and they wanted him to come in and just do a monologue.
So he came to me, he says, "Can you help me with a monologue?" I said, "Sure. That's what I do. I can absolutely can help you." I said to him, I said, "You remember that story you told me about being a young boy and witnessing that fight in front of your apartment building, the two men fighting over the car, the parking space? And he goes, "Yeah." I said, "Write that." And he says, "What do you mean?" I said, "No, write that." It's a great story. Well, that's going to be your monologue. And he went, "Okay." And he wrote it.
And then we worked together with the rewrite of it and to make it sharper. So now he had a monologue, and it was really good. It was really good. And then one day he told me at the same time that that was going on, a key thing about that story is he saw two men almost kill each other, and it didn't bother him at all. He was just intrigued. Nine years old, intrigued. And he told me later, he says, "At the same time, there was something else that happened that was really, really upsetting to me."
I said, "Really? What?" He says, "Well, the Yankees lost the World Series." And I go, "Really?" He says, "Yeah, I was really upset because I couldn't figure out what Mickey Mantle was going to do now." "What is he going to do? They lost." And I said, "That upsets you." He said, "Yeah." I said, "Write that story." He says, "Why?" I said, "No, write that story. We'll put them together. These two stories go together." He says, "They don't go together." I said, "Write the story. I'll show you how they go together."
Papamutes:
Wow.
Mark Travis:
Now, I had been doing other one person shows prior to working with Chazz. That was the beginning of A Bronx Tale where he would tell me stories and then we'd write them. We'd hone the story, and we'd slowly piece it together over a period of about eight or 10 months. It was pieced together piece by piece by piece,
Papamutes:
His testimonial, I mean, I bring that up knowing that if it wasn't for creative genius of Mark Travis, A Bronx Tale would never exist. I mean, that's huge. I mean, obviously the one man show, but the is movie just... I come from Italian neighborhood and it just was so relatable. It's like, "Oh my God, this movie is great." But when I read that, I was like, "Wow. Nice. That's sweet."
Mark Travis:
Yeah, sweet.
Papamutes:
What should a director never do? I know that sounds like a dumb question. What should a director never do? And there might be a lot of things, but what's the one thing that's like, "Oh my God, what are you doing? You can't do that."
Mark Travis:
Okay. This may sound strange because it's a very general question, Papamutes. It's a very general, what should you never do? Never assume that you are right. Someone else might be right. In other words, there's a danger. This is one of the talks I gave in one of those interviews I did. There's a danger in directing, the danger of assumption. The danger that assumption that performance is exactly what I need. The danger, that's the scene I need.
In other words, there's a danger of assuming that you know exactly what you need and what's going to work. Along with that comes an arrogance. So when I say never assume that you're right. When someone says, "I got another idea." Listen to them, listen to them. Give them the courtesy of your time. But give yourself the opportunity to listen to another idea. When someone says, "Maybe an actor could do that. What would happen if the scene went this way? What would happen if we played it this way?"
Papamutes:
Be flexible.
Mark Travis:
Good question. Yeah. Consider that. Even try it. Now, this gets back to the whole idea of directing theater where most of the time is spent rehearsing. Trial and error. Rehearsing. Try it. Try the scene that way. You may be surprised. Your first reaction may have been, "No, no, no, no, no. It's written this way. It's got to go this way."
Don't do that. Try it the other way. The thing is, you may discover one tiny little thing that's going to help the scene, or you may discover that you're right. It doesn't work that way. But now you know for sure. It's not just an attitude, it's evidence. You tried it and everybody goes, "Well, that doesn't work." You go, "Yeah, you're right. It doesn't work." Now, it's not an assumption that it won't work that way, it's a fact. It doesn't work that way. So that's why I say, "Don't assume that you're always right."
Papamutes:
Now, is that part of the so-called Travis technique, or is there many factors, I'm assuming?
Mark Travis:
Well, there are many factors. There's a book, the third book that I wrote, which is called Film Director's Bag of Tricks. Since you said Travis technique. The Bag of Tricks is really a lot of techniques. You can call them Travis techniques if you want. But a lot of techniques that I use and that I've learned or that I've developed working with writers and working with actors in order to get... First of all, in order to try to get from them what I want. But more than that, in order to work with them and get them past their resistance or their resistance or their fears. Now, now we're actually back to your first question, the difficult actor. Well, the difficult actor is working with some kind of fear.
Papamutes:
Oh, interesting.
Mark Travis:
And one big fear that a lot of actors can work with, and I've had this situation that this film that we're making is going to be so awful, it's going to hurt my career. Boy, try to deal with that one. Meanwhile, you're you're trying to make the film.
Papamutes:
Wow.
Mark Travis:
But when you say Travis Tech. Well, yeah, a lot of my techniques are how to work with other artists, especially writers and actors and other artists. Also cinematographers and designers. Because your job really is to get them to do their best work, to give you the best performance of the character or the best scene or their best writing. That's what you want from them. And your job is to help them be their best, which may be contrary to what you thought you were going to do, but you want them to be working at their best. How do you do that? And that's what that book is all about.
There are a lot of "tricks". The reason they're called tricks is because my publisher kept calling them, he said, "Well, that's a good trick. That's a good trick." So we called it the bag of tricks, but it is the whole art and craft of directing premieres. Half of it, half of it. If you wanted to be a director, half of it, I can teach you. Half of it. The other half is which is all the skills, how to work with actors, writers, directors, all of that, how to rehearse, blah, blah, blah. All of that. How to shoot.
The other half is psychology. How well do you work with people? Because it's a hugely collaborative process. And if you don't work well with people, if you can't inspire them to do their best, if you can't read what's going on with them and help them get past their own fears, you're just not going to be as good a director as you would like to be.
Papamutes:
And you have another book.
Mark Travis:
So that's psychology.
Papamutes:
You have another book, Directing Feature Films. Did that come out prior to or...
Mark Travis:
The very first book I wrote was called The Director's Journey.
Papamutes:
Okay.
Mark Travis:
The Director's Journey then years later was Reissued and Rewritten as the directing feature films the one you're talking about now. So that's really at the second edition of Director's Journey. So that came out before Bag of Tricks.
Papamutes:
Where can people. I'm assuming Amazon and just Google?
Mark Travis:
Amazon. You could Amazon. You can go to my website and find them. My website, you mentioned Travis International Film Institute. TIFI. tifi.us not .com. That's the website. It's very simple. Tifi.us. You could us can see all the books there. There's a lot of other stuff you can find there. It's also a good way to get in touch with me. You can go there and write to me immediately through the website and contact me. And then there's also another book that I'm working on now, which the working title is good.
It may change, maybe not. It's called Inside The Travis Technique. And it's the whole package. Everything we're talking about and more. The whole package of the Travis technique. A lot that's not covered in those first two books we just talked about. There's a lot that's not covered. I have a lot of work to do to get all of that. But that's what's coming.
Papamutes:
I'm sure you've worked with a lot of different people, but there was also a testimonial from Henry Winkler.
Mark Travis:
Yes.
Papamutes:
I mean, he seems like a great guy.
Mark Travis:
He is a great guy. We were at Yale together. That's where we first met, Yale Drama School.
Papamutes:
Okay. Cool.
Mark Travis:
And we worked together there as students and we've worked together since in LA. Now, he's a great guy.
Papamutes:
This is, again, not a dumb question, but I'm assuming you watched a lot of films over the years. Just as a film person, just the love of film. So I'm ready for the Wheel of Segments. It's off camera here. You can't see it. I'm going to spin this wheel. Can't see it.
Mark Travis:
Okay.
Papamutes:
All right. This one lands on name that actor. All right? I know you were concerned about this, but trust me, it's just a fun thing. I'm going to give you the character. In other words, if I said Rocky, obviously that would be Sylvester Stallone. But that's the gist of it. Are you ready? Are you ready for this challenge?
Mark Travis:
Okay.
Papamutes:
It's just a fun thing. All right. So 1978, who played Superman?
Mark Travis:
'78 was Christopher Reeves.
Papamutes:
Correct. Since you're a director's director, do you know who directed that? I know that might be a little bit of a stretch.
Mark Travis:
No, I'm not sure.
Papamutes:
It's Richard Donner or Donner.
Mark Travis:
Oh, Richard Donner. Yeah.
Papamutes:
Who played Jake LaMotta?
Mark Travis:
Who played Jake LaMotta?
Papamutes:
Yeah. Robert DeNiro.
That's correct. And the director?
Mark Travis:
Scorsese.
Papamutes:
There you go. We're on a roll Now. Who played Andy Dufresne?
Mark Travis:
Andy Dufresne?
Papamutes:
1994.
Mark Travis:
I have no idea.
Papamutes:
Shawshank Redemption, Andy Dufresne.
Mark Travis:
Well, okay. Andy Dufresne that was probably... I can see him. I see him.
Papamutes:
I know. You know what, it's not one of the names.
Mark Travis:
His face is going away. I mean, his name is-
Papamutes:
It's not one of those names that pops up. I would probably struggle, well, if I didn't have it on my paper right here, but it's Tim Robbins.
Mark Travis:
Tim Robbins, right.
Papamutes:
Directed by a gentleman named Frank...
Mark Travis:
Darabont.
Papamutes:
Yes. Thank you for that. I was struggling with that one. Going back to '72, who played Lewis Medlock? This is a tough one. If I gave you the movie, you'd probably get it right away.
Mark Travis:
Yeah. No, it's interesting. I'm going to stop for a sec. It's interesting what you're doing just to give me the name of a character. If I don't remember, it's like with Shawshank, I didn't remember the name of that characte.r
Papamutes:
I would not know this, but as soon as you hear the movie, you'll know who the actor is. The movie was Deliverance.
Mark Travis:
Deliverance. Okay. And the name of the character?
Papamutes:
Lewis Medlock.
Mark Travis:
It could have been Burt Reynolds.
Papamutes:
Yes.
Mark Travis:
Okay.
Papamutes:
Directed by John Boorman.
Mark Travis:
Right.
Papamutes:
Not that I know him. But this might be a tough one. Who played Lisa Fremont, 1954 Rear Window.
Mark Travis:
Grace Kelly.
Papamutes:
Very famous actress,
Mark Travis:
Grace Kelly.
Papamutes:
That's correct. And you obviously the director-
Mark Travis:
Hitchcock.
Papamutes:
... Hitchcock. Boom. See? Alex Foley, 1984. Beverly Hills Cop.
Mark Travis:
Okay. Alex Foley. That's... Ooh, face and no name.
Papamutes:
It happens.
Mark Travis:
Eddie Murphy.
Papamutes:
Correct. Directed by...
Mark Travis:
Director, I don't know.
Papamutes:
Tony Scott.
Mark Travis:
Okay.
Papamutes:
Just a couple more. This one, Bill "the Butcher" Cutting. 2002. Gangs of New York.
Mark Travis:
Bill the Butcher.
Papamutes:
Bill "the Butcher" Cutting. Gangs of New York is the movie.
Mark Travis:
Gangs of New York which is Scorsese is probably Daniel Day Lewis.
Papamutes:
That's correct. And last one, Nightmare on Elm Street. Who played Freddie Krueger? I'd never heard of this guy, but...
Mark Travis:
No. I have no idea.
Papamutes:
He's infamous and his name was Robert Englund.
Mark Travis:
That's right. I've seen the name. I have never seen that movie.
Papamutes:
I think I saw it once when it first came out because it was the thing to do anyway. Oh, you didn't do too bad. There you go. I got something else. It's a little easier.
Mark Travis:
Did I win a toaster or a waffle iron?
Papamutes:
You win a Papamutes t-shirt. It would look great in Hawaii.
Mark Travis:
I'll be a walking billboard for you.
Papamutes:
There you go. That's good. All right. So this is just to get to know you outside of what we're talking about. This is this or that. Very simple. I'm going to give you two options. You just give me your preference. Preference. Are you ready for that?
Mark Travis:
My preference?
Papamutes:
Yeah.
Mark Travis:
Oh, sure.
Papamutes:
Here we go. Beer or whiskey?
Mark Travis:
Beer.
Papamutes:
Pizza or pasta?
Mark Travis:
Pasta.
Papamutes:
Nice. Dog or cat?
Mark Travis:
Dog.
Papamutes:
Beach or mountains?
Mark Travis:
Now, this is tough because I live right in between both. Now, I'll say mountains.
Papamutes:
All right. Scorsese or Spielberg?
Mark Travis:
Spielberg.
Papamutes:
Interesting. Comedy or drama?
Mark Travis:
Drama.
Papamutes:
Eat home, dine in or dine out?
Mark Travis:
Eat home.
Papamutes:
Really? History museum or art museum?
Mark Travis:
Art Museum.
Papamutes:
Boom. Steak or lobster? I'm getting hungry with all this food.
Mark Travis:
Lobster.
Papamutes:
Nice. Last one. Tarantino or Stanley Kubrick.
Mark Travis:
That's a tough one. That's a tough one.
Papamutes:
I agree.
Mark Travis:
I'm going to go with Kubrick.
Papamutes:
I agree.
Mark Travis:
I got to go with Kubrick.
Papamutes:
All right. Wonderful. So before I let you go, I mean, I know there's a lot of stuff
Mark Travis:
After you've run me through the gauntlet here. Okay.
Papamutes:
No, you did well. It's fine. I mean, I went past my own test, to be honest with you.
Mark Travis:
My career, which another lot of stories has gone very heavily into... Well, the director's director, working with other directors, helping other directors to the point I'm working with five or six directors now all over the world. I work with on different projects. Some of it is to be really clear, the work that I'm doing with them, there's one who just wants to learn directing, starting out. So we're doing it. There's another one that I'm working with in London now who I've worked with before.
He has a big feature film that he's going to be doing. Very big, and I'm working with him. So I'm working with a range of people from the beginners all the way through professionals all the time. And to me, it's fantastic. I mean, I love directing. I love directing my own films, but in this way, I'm actually working on four or five or six projects at the same time, helping people that I really care about direct their films and raising the level of the films.
I'm very, very blessed that I get to work on so many productions this way. So to your listeners, to those listeners who are serious, and I don't mean that serious directors yet. I mean, they're serious about pursuing directing, or they're serious directors, or they are professional directors now who are curious about maybe listening to this podcast about who is Mark Travis? What is the Travis technique? Because they've only gotten a taste of it. If they want to know more, all they have to do is write to me and I will give them... They write to me and tell them they came from this podcast.
Papamutes:
Okay.
Mark Travis:
I will give them one half hour of my time free online.
Papamutes:
Sweet.
Mark Travis:
We will meet in a consultation. And it's really a meeting. It's not working on a project, but we can talk about projects. We can talk about whatever they want. And if someone's thinking, "I'd like to meet him and see if maybe he could help me with something or whatever," just write to me. Now, I said before, tifi.us. That's the website. Go there. There's a lot of information. You can go there and just contact me and it'll send it right to me.
I will also give you my email address right now. It's very simple. It is Mark with the W markwtravis@gmail.com. Just write to me. But if you're listening now and you're going to write to me mention, Papamutes podcast. Please, I need to know that because this is where I'm making the offer. I'm not making it a lot of other places.
Papamutes:
Sweet.
Mark Travis:
So I have to know that this is legitimate. Come through me. Okay. The other thing I will offer you, even if you're just curious, this is to everybody, I will send you a link. I recently did a mini masterclass on the Travis technique. You write to me. You say, "I'll have the link to the masterclass." I will send you that link. It's free. You can watch the masterclass. Get more of an idea of who I am and what I'm doing. It's a nice way for you to meet me. I don't meet you that way, but you meet me and you get to know what I'm doing. So that's the offer.
Papamutes:
That's great. Is the mindset different for a director? I'm assuming It is. But when you get a script that you wrote that he wrote or she wrote, compared to the studio saying, "Hey, here's a story. Go direct it."
Mark Travis:
It's totally different. You and I could do another whole podcast just on that topic even directing something that you wrote. It's a totally different mindset. As you can imagine, a director who wrote the script... Now, this goes back to the thing that I said before about assumptions. Director who wrote the script will usually feel like, "Oh, I know exactly how this should work. I wrote it."
And there's an arrogance in that. Now, that to a certain degree, they probably do know, but that arrogance can get in the way. That shift from writing a script to directing the same script is a huge shift. It's huge. And the sad thing about directing your own material, and I've directed a lot of my own material, directing your own material, you lose the director writer collaboration because you're one person.
Now, if somebody else wrote it like your second example, and it's brought to you and you're going to direct it, now you have another person involved, that writer. And now you have that collaboration, which could be either good or not good, depends on how it's going, but it is a potential relationship that can enrich the whole project. When you're directing your own material, you don't have that. So it is, It's very, very different.
Papamutes:
That makes sense. So what does 2023, the rest of 2023 have for you? I know you mentioned the book.
What else is going on?
Working on the book, working on a lot of these projects like the one in England. I may go to London for a while. I may go to Georgia, the country of Georgia. There's another project there that I'm working on. That may happen. And there'll be a trip to Europe at some time because I get invited there to teach at different film schools or the... I think I have a unique credit of having taught at five different directors guilds-
I saw that.
Mark Travis:
... all over the world. And there's the director's guild in Germany who was inviting me back. So there are those teaching masterclass opportunities that's working with clients on project opportunities. And then there's the writing of the book. That's enough to keep me busy.
Great. Well, I'd love to have you on again. I mean, you mentioned it.
I would be happy to do it.
Papamutes:
It's great. As long as we can synchronize our times.
Mark Travis:
We can do it. Well, I'm not going to have any more accidents, so we'll be fine. One of the things I'm best known for, which we haven't touched on at all today, but I'll mention it quickly, is the way I work with actors. The way I "direct" actors. And the way I direct actors, I do not direct the actor at all. I direct the character. I have a way of getting past the actor to the character through a process called the interrogation process, which I developed. It's a way that I can get into a very deep and profound relationship with the character while the actor that I'm working with, basically just as the actor is not involved. They're just there.
It's almost like channeling. I'm pulling the character through the actor. And if you go to tifi.us and you go to the films, just look at films and click on films, you'll see a film that says Rehearsal Scene 22.
Papamutes:
I saw that. I didn't watch it, but I mean, in research, I saw all your links.
Mark Travis:
If you watch that, you'll see how that process works. It's a documentary, Elsa and I did a few years ago on that process. But that could take up an entire podcast. I mean or two, or three or four easily. Because it's kind of... It is revolutionary, and there are a lot of directors who are using these techniques now very, very successfully.
Papamutes:
Okay. Well, great. Awesome. That's it. I appreciate you coming on. I hope you can enjoy my pleasure the rest of your day there. And beautiful... It's Honolulu?
Mark Travis:
Honolulu, yep. I'm in Honolulu, yep.
Papamutes:
It's tough.
Mark Travis:
Right near Waikiki beaches. Right over there.
Papamutes:
All right. Great. I believe you.
Mark Travis:
I walked through it. Yep.
Papamutes:
All right, great. Well, have a good day, Mark. I appreciate your time.
Mark Travis:
Okay.
Papamutes:
Thanks, again, buddy.
Mark Travis:
Thank you.
Papamutes:
All right. Bye-bye.
Mark Travis:
Okay. Yep, bye.
Papamutes:
There you have it, Mark Travis. Interesting gentlemen. Definitely want to have him on again, talking about directing directors, actors contact with Chazz Palminteri, Henry Winkler. I mean, he's been all over. And fascinating stories. Great, great guy. All right. Until next time, take care.
Speaker 1:
This has been an Unmuted podcast with Papamutes.
