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Maya Workowski - Poet
Poet Maya Workowski chats up Papamutes with her love of poetry, and her book QUIVER. Maya shares what drew her to poetry, and how photography is a visual form of poetry. Maya's poems have inspired hundreds on TikTok. She gives advice for aspiring poets and whats needed to follow your passion. Papamutes new segment 'Time Capsule' tests Maya's name recognition through the years. How far back does she go? Well, tune into Papamutes Podcast to find out. Poetry is Life!
photo: courtesy of maya workowski
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Announcer:
You're listening to Unmuted with Papa Mutes.
Papamutes:
All right. I'm thrilled to welcome to the podcast today, Maya Workowski. Maya is a poet, a writer, a lot of things. That's why I have her on to talk. Maya, welcome to Papamutes.
Maya Workowski:
Thank you so much for having me. I'm really happy to be here.
Papamutes:
So let's get right to it. What sparked your interest in poetry?
Maya Workowski:
I would have to say, I actually remember it really specifically, so in eighth grade I had a great English teacher, she was just very invested in allowing us to read a bunch of different things and be exposed to a lot of different authors. And so one of the units that we had was on spoken word poetry, and previous to that, I had been interested in writing, but when I was able to experience the magic of seeing someone perform a poem in this very specific way and all the ritual that's involved with that, it was just a really special moment for me because I was able to really see how intentional poetry is, and how much intention and thought goes into creating a poem, and then all of the different ways that you can execute that. So being able to see something like that in a classroom was just amazing for me.
I remember the first one that I watched was, it's called B by Sarah Kay. And we watched this Ted talk that she does where she performs B before she starts speaking about poetry and whatnot. So when I saw her perform it just sent chills through my entire body. I was just so taken with everything about it. And so then after that class, I went home and I remember just sitting in my room on my little iPod touch, looking at all of the spoken word poems on YouTube that I could, and I ended up watching a lot of poems from Button Poetry, this other poet named Phil Kaye, Olivia Gatwood, a lot of people that ended up inspiring my book.
Papamutes:
Now the book you speak of, is it Quiver?
Maya Workowski:
Yes.
Papamutes:
So what is the significance of the woman's hand on the cover? It's a great shot, so I'm curious.
Maya Workowski:
I think it really speaks to me because I actually have a tattoo of these two hands. It's kind of like the Creation of Adam position, where there's one hand and they're almost touching. And I got that tattoo because I read this other book of poems from Natalie Diaz when I was in college called The Hand Has Twenty-Seven Bones--: These Hands If Not Gods, and that really radically shifted the way that I saw bodies. I feel like it made me see bodies as some really divine force, something that's beautiful. And not that I didn't see bodies as beautiful before, it's just that the way that Natalie was speaking about hands in particular was very moving to me and the way that she really personified them. And instead of making or positioning the human mind as the driving force for our experience through the world, the way that Natalie positioned hands throughout her poems in that collection was as if hands are the driving factor behind how we experience the world. And she just really emphasized their importance, especially with touch and all of the things that they let us do.
And so honestly, the cover of my book is kind of an homage to that because it was a big part of me and my life philosophy, clearly because I got a tattoo symbolizing it, and I wanted to kind of riff on that with my book and enter a conversation around the divinity of human bodies.
Papamutes:
Awesome. Now, do you feel that song lyrics are a form of poetry?
Maya Workowski:
I definitely see it that way. And it's funny because I feel like over the years that I've been writing poetry, sometimes I look at it and I think this could be a song. And there are certain lyricists who are musicians that I'm like, "This person is a poet. Just because of the way that they write their lyrics and just how creative they are lyrically, it makes you really see the connection between poetry and music. Like, I think that Taylor Swift is 100% a poet, I look at her lyrics, especially on Evermore and Folklore, and it's just amazing the way that she articulates experiences. So I feel a definite connection between poetry and songwriting.
Papamutes:
Now do you feel, do you think a writing degree is necessary for being taken seriously as a poet?
Maya Workowski:
This is actually something that I've thought about a lot. I don't think that a writing degree is necessary at all for becoming a successful writer. It just depends on what your personal preference is. And that's one of the things that I love about writing is that anyone can do it. It's so accessible. Creative writing is a skill and anyone can do it, you definitely don't need to have a degree in it. You just have to practice a lot.
And that's why getting a degree was beneficial to me in creative writing because it allowed me to practice every single day and get workshopped from my peers all the time, and professors who are very distinguished in the field. And it's just that opportunity I knew I wasn't going to get again, so I just decided for me in my path that getting a degree in creative writing would be the best. And I know that some people don't necessarily need to get a degree, to be great at it, it's just that for me and where I was I definitely felt like this is something that I want to pursue, and I want to learn from people who have been doing it for way longer than I have.
Papamutes:
Now when you first started writing poems, no schooling, you're just like, "I really like this." Do you look back now and say, "Oh, my God, those poems sucked." You know what I mean? Or, I mean-
Maya Workowski:
It's funny, I feel like I do. I feel like I do.
Papamutes:
Like, "Oh, my God, what the hell was that?"
Maya Workowski:
I feel like I do, but also, I don't know, I feel like it's endearing too, because you have to try.
Papamutes:
Sure, it's a story. It's the seed, right.
Maya Workowski:
Yeah. You have to try so many times before you get good at anything.
Papamutes:
Exactly.
Maya Workowski:
It's just that with poetry, it's especially, quote-unquote "cringey", because poems are so full of emotion and full of experience that it's, after you've moved on emotionally from it, it's a little hard to look back and be like, "I was so been out of shape about this." And read your old work about it. But it's funny because recently I've been looking back at some of my old poems from two or three years ago, and I'm like, "That actually, that wasn't too bad. I would still write that today and be proud of that."
Papamutes:
Cool, cool.
Maya Workowski:
So I feel like there's progress.
Papamutes:
Awesome. Now, you have spoken about self-publishing instead of waiting for a publisher to grab you, just tell us about that.
Maya Workowski:
Yeah. I feel like, again, self-publishing is one of those things that it's different for everyone on their writing journey. And different types of publishing can serve different goals at different points in your writing career. So for me, I chose to self-publish Quiver because I was proud of it, I knew that there were people that it would resonate with. It had already been workshopped a lot by many different people, including my peers and my mentors. So there was a lot of material in there that I felt was pretty good, and to the point where I would be proud of it, and I would know that it had gone through the necessary steps in order to be published.
Papamutes:
Sure.
Maya Workowski:
Because that's the thing. I've also been traditionally published. So traditional publishing that is just when you get a literary agent, and then you are published elsewhere. Or, in my case, I didn't have a literary agent. I just submitted to different journals and they accepted it. So there's different ways to go about traditional publishing.
But going back to what I was saying before, self-publishing serves different roles at different parts in your career. And since I'm still a young writer, and I was just very excited to get that body of poems out in the world, so I was just like, "You know what? I'm just going to do this." That path isn't for everyone. And I definitely see the value of traditional publishing, and it's definitely something that I want to do later in my career. But as I'm building myself as a writer, I was just like, "I'll do this, and I'll just see what happens."
Papamutes:
Right, stepping stones.
Maya Workowski:
Yeah.
Papamutes:
Now, on your website, you speak of a more inclusive Earth, so who falls into the category of not being included in your opinion?
Maya Workowski:
In terms of my book and the things that I've written about in the past, for me, it's about fostering growth and inclusion for everyone, and just being kind and compassionate towards people. And for example, one of the things that I wrote about in my book is, how, especially with my personal experience with my religion that I grew up with as a child, there were certain aspects of it that now I look back on and I'm like, "Why was this okay? Why was this happening?" For example, our priest, he wouldn't talk about misogyny, he would say misogynistic things as part of the sermon.
Papamutes:
Got it.
Maya Workowski:
Or, he would say other things against LGBTQ people that were just not okay to say in a public space. And so when I talk about inclusion, I mean that people shouldn't be made to feel lesser than because of just who they are.
Papamutes:
Right, inclusion is exactly that. Inclusion.
Maya Workowski:
Yeah. Right, yeah.
Papamutes:
The song thing. Do you ever see a photo and say, "Ooh, I got a poem for that?"
Maya Workowski:
Absolutely.
Papamutes:
Yes? Yeah?
Maya Workowski:
Yeah.
Papamutes:
Cool.
Maya Workowski:
Poetry is everywhere. Poetry is life, and-
Papamutes:
Poetry is life, I like that.
Maya Workowski:
Yeah.
Papamutes:
All right, cool.
Maya Workowski:
Yeah, I definitely sometimes will just look at a photo, and it's beautiful because it tells a story. There's a narrative without any words. And I think that's the process of making images and capturing images is really cool, because you can find a story within the everyday life around us.
Papamutes:
Do you feel that poems have to rhyme?
Maya Workowski:
No, definitely not. Honestly, sometimes I prefer poems when they don't rhyme, or if the rhyme is just really tasteful. For example, if just a few... there's a few couplets throughout the poem that rhymes, I think that can be really tasteful and not come off as sing-songy. Or, if there's a slant rhyme, I think that can be done really well. I definitely don't think poems have to rhyme, though.
Papamutes:
Now what's a slant rhyme?
Maya Workowski:
So a slant rhyme is words that sound like they kind of rhyme, or they almost rhyme. So an example would be, let's see, like, ant and slam, they kind of sound the same, but they don't end the exact same way.
Papamutes:
Now, who do you read?
Maya Workowski:
I would say my biggest inspiration, like I said earlier, would be Olivia Gatwood, she's a poet that is contemporary. She has a bit of a YouTube following, she posted about, I would say, 7 to 10 years ago, she would do a lot of slam poetry competitions and-
Papamutes:
Wait, wait... Wait, now what's slam poetry? Is that like rap? You rap, by rap, boom, boom, boom... Back and forth? I mean, is that what... Is that? Is that, I mean, slam poetry?
Maya Workowski:
No. I mean, it's slam poetry is just-
Papamutes:
A rap battle?
Maya Workowski:
... it's like spoken word poetry.
Papamutes:
Okay.
Maya Workowski:
It's like spoken word poetry.
Papamutes:
Okay.
Maya Workowski:
So she would-
Papamutes:
Oh, wait. You know what I'm saying? Is it off the top of your head? Or, is it-
Maya Workowski:
No. No.
Papamutes:
Okay.
Maya Workowski:
No, it's not like a freestyle-
Papamutes:
I thought maybe it was a, "Sky is blue, what are you going to do?" You know?
Maya Workowski:
I would love, that would be amazing.
Papamutes:
Slam poetry. I like it, yeah.
Maya Workowski:
Yeah.
So she would upload a lot of her videos to YouTube, or her performances to YouTube, and the things that she talks about, she talks about what it means to grow up as a girl, and just the experiences of femininity, experiencing those things for the first time, and then shifting from being a teenager into young adulthood as a woman. So she talks about those kinds of themes a lot and because she talks about that stuff, it really resonates with me because I feel like she tackles a lot of taboo things. And I would say that her poetry it would classify as confessional poetry, because a lot of her poems are beautiful. They're very lyrically prevalent, but they're also focused on these little snippets. It's almost as if she took a picture and just put it on the page because they're so focused on just like, this is a memory, this is a memory, this is a memory. And the way that she writes is really inspiring to me. And what she writes about is very inspiring.
It's really cool when someone gives you a permission slip to dip your toe in and try a new subject, or a new way of expressing yourself. And I feel like Olivia Gatwood's work has given me a lot of permission slips.
Papamutes:
Now, besides talent, you know you have talent, what would a potential, want to be, if that's the right term, poet need besides talent?
Maya Workowski:
I think that they would just need patience with themselves and kindness and gentleness towards themselves, coupled with persistence. So basically, they just need work ethic. I feel like it's just practicing and just saying, "This might not be the best poem that I'm ever going to write, but I'm going to try, and I'm going to try to express this specific feeling." And as long as they're willing to try and keep going, that is all that they need. You have to have the passion to just keep trying. And I would also say, try to find like-minded individuals to-
Papamutes:
Oh, true. Yeah.
Maya Workowski:
... surround yourself with.
Papamutes:
Let's have some fun, something different off the topic. It has nothing to do with poetry, but I created a new segment, and I want to try it out on you. So you will be the record setter.
Maya Workowski:
Okay.
Papamutes:
This is called Time Capsule. Very simple, I'm going to give you a famous person. You just tell me if you know who it is. If I said Sylvester Stallone, obviously you would say, "Oh, he's an actor, Rocky."
Maya Workowski:
Yeah.
Papamutes:
Et cetera. But I'm going to go back 10 years, and I'm going to keep going back 10 years until you're like, "Oh... " Now you're young, a lot younger than me. So we'll see if you could set the record for the next guest.
Maya Workowski:
Okay, perfect.
Papamutes:
Are you up for a time capsule? All right, here we go.
Maya Workowski:
Oh, yeah.
Papamutes:
Time Capsule with Maya Workowski. Who is Lizzo?
Maya Workowski:
Oh, I know her.
Papamutes:
You got to tell me who it is.
Maya Workowski:
She's a singer.
Papamutes:
Okay, that's good enough. We don't have to go through that.
Maya Workowski:
Do I have to say what they do?
Papamutes:
Well, no, singer is fine. You, say just singer.
Maya Workowski:
Okay.
Papamutes:
Yeah, yeah. You know?
Maya Workowski:
Okay.
Papamutes:
Yeah.
Maya Workowski:
Okay.
Papamutes:
All right. So we're going to go back to 2010, Serena Williams.
Maya Workowski:
Oh, yeah. She's a tennis player.
Papamutes:
And we're on a roll. We're going back to 2000 now, Julia Roberts.
Maya Workowski:
Yep, she's an actor.
Papamutes:
1990s, Michael Jordan.
Maya Workowski:
Yeah, he is a basketball player.
Papamutes:
Ooh, had to think about it.
Maya Workowski:
Yeah.
Papamutes:
Yeah, no.
Maya Workowski:
I'm not much of a sport girl.
Papamutes:
That's okay. All right, so 1980s, Bill Gates.
Maya Workowski:
Yeah, he's an entrepreneur.
Papamutes:
But what's he famous for?
Maya Workowski:
Oh, gosh.
Papamutes:
Come on now think about it.
Maya Workowski:
I don't know, computers? Yeah. Okay.
Papamutes:
Microsoft, we'll give you that one. All right, here we go 1970s, Johnny Carson.
Maya Workowski:
No, I don't know who that is.
Sound Clips:
What? Here's Johnny.
Papamutes:
Wait, you never heard that name? Johnny Carson?
Maya Workowski:
No. Who is that?
Papamutes:
I'm melting.
Maya Workowski:
Is he an actor?
Papamutes:
No.
Maya Workowski:
Oh, okay.
Papamutes:
All right, we're going to have to pull the plug. He's a talk show host. He's the, not Jay Leno... Jimmy Kimball of the day, top Notch. All these guys now looked at him. So the record is by Maya, the 19... Well, actually, you went to 1980s. It's good, it's good. But just for the fun part of it, I'm going to keep going.
Maya Workowski:
Okay.
Papamutes:
But your record is only 1980. We don't want to cheat.
Maya Workowski:
Yeah.
Papamutes:
All right, here we go. 1960s, Alfred Hitchcock.
Maya Workowski:
Oh, I feel like he's either like a writer, or I feel like it has to do with horror films.
Papamutes:
Correct. He's a director of suspense, basically.
Maya Workowski:
Okay.
Papamutes:
The Birds, watch that one, that's a good one. 1950s, Elizabeth Taylor.
Maya Workowski:
I feel like she's an actress.
Papamutes:
She is, famous actress.
Maya Workowski:
Yeah.
Papamutes:
I think she's pushing up daisies now, but yeah, famous actress. 1940s, Henry Ford.
Maya Workowski:
Oh, yeah. Henry Ford, he made cars.
Papamutes:
There you go.
Maya Workowski:
Yeah.
Papamutes:
1930s. We're only going to go through the 19 hundreds, don't worry.
Maya Workowski:
Okay.
Papamutes:
1930s, Fred Astaire.
Maya Workowski:
Oh, ooh. I think I've heard this name before.
Papamutes:
Yes. Fred Astaire. His name goes with his profession. That might be a little much, but it's a perfect name for what he was famous for. Fred Astaire.
Maya Workowski:
Gosh, I don't know.
Papamutes:
He's considered one of the greatest dancers in film history.
Maya Workowski:
Okay.
Papamutes:
You know, dancing around on film.
Maya Workowski:
Yeah.
Papamutes:
1920s, Charles Lindberg. This is more like a history test now.
Maya Workowski:
I feel-
Papamutes:
Charles Lindberg. You know this one? You're just drawing a blank, it's okay.
Maya Workowski:
I've definitely heard the name, but I don't know off the top of my head.
Papamutes:
Yeah, he's the first flight attempt over the Atlantic. Or, I'm sorry, yeah-
Maya Workowski:
Okay.
Papamutes:
... over the Atlantic Ocean.
1910s would be, William Howard Taft.
Maya Workowski:
Oh, he was a president.
Papamutes:
Correct, 27th president. And the last one, Wilbur Wright, I kind of gave that one away already.
Maya Workowski:
Yeah. He like,-
Papamutes:
Plane man.
Maya Workowski:
Yeah.
Papamutes:
All right. No, that's fine. You got stuck on Johnny Carson. We forgive you.
Maya Workowski:
Yeah.
Papamutes:
It's okay.
Maya Workowski:
I'm sweating now, that was a lot of pressure.
Papamutes:
Where can people find you? You know TikTok? I know your TikTok-ing around.
Maya Workowski:
Yeah. My TikTok handle is @thatbipoet, pretty easy to spell. People can find me on my website as well, which is just MayaWorkowski.com, my email is my work MayaWorkowski@gmail.com. I don't really have a lot of social media, so TikTok is the place to go.
Papamutes:
I checked it out, and started reading your poems. I was like, "Okay." So what's happening in 2023? Or, what do you see happening down the road here?
Maya Workowski:
Well, definitely going to keep posting on TikTok, that's been a lot of fun. I feel like in terms of writing, I am being gentle with myself in terms of creative output. I feel like maybe not another book in 2023, but definitely starting to turn the gears for what is next.
Papamutes:
Okay.
Maya Workowski:
So starting to think about themes for a potential next book.
Papamutes:
Yeah, this has been great. Have a great night.
Maya Workowski:
Great.
Papamutes:
Have a great dinner.
Maya Workowski:
I really appreciate being here, thank you so much for having me. This has been such a great experience.
Papamutes:
All right, bye-bye.
Maya Workowski:
Thank you, have a good night.
Papamutes:
All right. There you have it. Maya Workowski, poet, photographer, author. Check out her book Quiver, Q-U-I-V-E-R. Google that title, check her out on TikTok, Maya Workowski. Fun girl, smart. Really enjoyed her, coming on.
Next Guest will be... Well, you'll have to tune in. Until then, take care.
Announcer:
This has been an Unmuted Podcast with Papamutes.
